Marine suédoise

[Serge]

La classe Visby vient de valider le RBS-15 par une campagne de tir en juyin dernier:

http://rpdefense.over-blog.com/article-swedish-navy-s-hms-visby-test-fires-first-guided-missile-107681291.html

[Chevalier Gilles]

sympa pour un petit navire

[Serge]

Cest le bateau qui m'aurait donné envie d'être marin.

[Chevalier Gilles]

Cest le bateau qui m'aurait donné envie d'être marin.

je te compend

[Dr HK]

Je verrais bien cette merveille équiper la marine belge  :P

[Chevalier Gilles]

Je verrais bien cette merveille équiper la marine belge  :P

dans la version 105 metres qu'ils proposent, c'est vrai que ca me tente bien

[IS Infinite Stratos]

Je la considère comme la meilleure corvette légère sûr le marché.

[Chevalier Gilles]

Je la considère comme la meilleure corvette légère sûr le marché.

c'est vrai, mais j'aime bien aussi les skojd norvégiens, même si une version de 100m me parait difficile

[Chronos]

Je viens de faire un petit comparatif avec la corvette chinoise type 056. Les caractéristiques m'ont l'air presque similaires alors que la Visby est plus légère.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visby-class_corvette

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_056_corvette

j'ai raison ou j'ai loupé un truc ?

[Chevalier Gilles]

ou tu as raison, c'est parce ce que la visby c'est du composite plus léger

puis l'artillerie est plus légere

[IS Infinite Stratos]

ou tu as raison, c'est parce ce que la visby c'est du composite plus léger

puis l'artillerie est plus légere

Le Visby c'est du ALL IN ONE :lol:

[Skw]

On avait pu traiter dans une autre partie du forum de la relation, plutôt houleuse, entre Thyssen  Krupp Marine Systems et Kockums. Je réédite l'article ici :

 

Germans look to sink Swedish sub maker

 

German industrial conglomerate ThyssenKrupp bought Kockums in 2005 to form part of what is known as ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), a firm which also owns German submarine maker HDW, a direct competitor of Kockums.

A source told The Local that the purchase was aimed at getting rid of Germany’s Swedish submarine rival and that TKMS was jeopardizing Swedish export deals for submarines with the Australian and Singaporean governments. 

"The purchase of Kockums wasn't aimed at consolidating the naval industry and creating synergies, but at getting rid of a competitor," a source in Germany with direct knowledge of the situation told The Local.

Kockums and its predecessors have been building ships for the Swedish navy for centuries at the Karlskrona shipyard in southern Sweden that now serves as the base of the company's Swedish operations.

But according to a German naval manufacturing consultant with ties to TKMS, ThyssenKrupp is actively trying to sabotage Kockums export operations to the advantage of Germany’s HDW, a strategy he dubbed "TKMS über alles" and slammed as "suicide".

The Germans' efforts to sink Sweden's submarine industry have been ongoing since at least 2011, according to the source, when TKMS CEO Hans Christoph Atzpodien denied Kockums the opportunity to bid on a project in Singapore for the construction of new submarines, despite the Swedish firm's long-standing relationship in the country.

Earlier this year, the German firm decreed that the Swedish shipbuilder officially change its corporate name to ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, scrapping the Kockums brand name that has been a part of Swedish industry since the early 1800s.

'A raging war is taking place'

In August, during a meeting in Bonn, Germany with officials from Singapore defence agency DSTA held, Atzpodien claimed that Kockums "would no longer be capable of designing and building submarines", according to the source.

"A raging war is taking place between Kockums and TKMS," he said, explaining that the Singapore deal has brought the situation into sharp relief.

Among other things, Atzpodien disparaged Kockums plans for a new A26 class of submarine, claiming the Swedish firm didn't have enough engineers to complete the project, and that it was sure to be plagued with cost overruns and delays.

"Atzpodien has systematically ejected Kockums from the discussions and has barred Kockums from Singapore," the source explained.

TKMS has also complicated Kockums' chances for new contracts in Australia, another country where the Swedish shipbuilder has a strong presence, having designed and built six Collins-class submarines in the 1990s in what was one of the largest export deals ever at the time.

But Kockums found itself left out of a 2012 initial call for proposals from Australia to replace the aging subs with an off the shelf solution, while its German-based competitor and sister company HDW was one of three European firms asked to participate.

Earlier this year, however, Australia and Sweden did ink a deal allowing for Kockums to take part in the project, dubbed SEA 1000, which calls for the building of 12 new submarines.

But in the meantime, TKMS purchased an Australian naval defence firm, Australian Marine Technologies, that "could do the same job as Kockums could have done on its own," the source said.

"TKMS has here again torpedoed all the efforts of Kockums to run this future competition because it has already created its own footprint," the source told The Local.

A Swedish saviour?

The Swedish government, as well as officials with the primary defence procurement agency, the Defence Materiel Administration (FMV), has been made aware of the situation and have become so unhappy they have asked Swedish defence contractor Saab to look into a possible purchase of Kockums, a source within the Swedish defence industry told The Local.

"Discussions are taking place right now," according to the source, who agreed that TKMS is trying to strangle Sweden's ship building industry.

"The only reason TKMS owns Kockums is to stop them from exporting," the Swedish source explained, adding that the Swedish firm "could not exist" without export contracts.

Allan Widman, a Liberal Party (Folkpartiet) MP from Malmö and the party's defence policy spokesman said he is "worried" about Kockum's future in light of the rift with TKMS.

"Submarine building capabilities are essential for our armed forces and our ability to defend ourselves," he told The Local, adding that he had heard a number of "industry rumours" about the discord between TKMS and Kockums.

Adding to his concern is the fact that two years have passed since the Swedish parliament Riksdag approved funding for the development of the A26 submarine for the Swedish navy, but nothing has happened, reportedly due to concerns over ThyssenKrupp's ownership of Kockums.

"I hope Kockums isn't prevented from doing business with other countries. It's not constructive," said Widman, adding he would welcome Swedish ownership for the Karlskrona-based shipbuilder.

"I would have no objection to private Swedish ownership of Kockums," he said when asked about the Saab deal.

However, if the Swedish and German firms can't strike a suitable deal to resolve the situation, Widman said the dispute may require a "political solution".

"This is a matter that's vital to our national security," he said, stressing that he hopes both Germany and Sweden can maintain submarine building capacity.

"In the end, however, it may require a political dialogue between Sweden and Germany to find a suitable solution."

When reached by The Local for comment on the Saab-Kockums negotiations, a Saab spokesman refused to comment.
German industrial conglomerate ThyssenKrupp bought Kockums in 2005 to form part of what is known as ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), a firm which also owns German submarine maker HDW, a direct competitor of Kockums.

A source told The Local that the purchase was aimed at getting rid of Germany’s Swedish submarine rival and that TKMS was jeopardizing Swedish export deals for submarines with the Australian and Singaporean governments. 

"The purchase of Kockums wasn't aimed at consolidating the naval industry and creating synergies, but at getting rid of a competitor," a source in Germany with direct knowledge of the situation told The Local.

Kockums and its predecessors have been building ships for the Swedish navy for centuries at the Karlskrona shipyard in southern Sweden that now serves as the base of the company's Swedish operations.

But according to a German naval manufacturing consultant with ties to TKMS, ThyssenKrupp is actively trying to sabotage Kockums export operations to the advantage of Germany’s HDW, a strategy he dubbed "TKMS über alles" and slammed as "suicide".

The Germans' efforts to sink Sweden's submarine industry have been ongoing since at least 2011, according to the source, when TKMS CEO Hans Christoph Atzpodien denied Kockums the opportunity to bid on a project in Singapore for the construction of new submarines, despite the Swedish firm's long-standing relationship in the country.

Earlier this year, the German firm decreed that the Swedish shipbuilder officially change its corporate name to ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, scrapping the Kockums brand name that has been a part of Swedish industry since the early 1800s.

'A raging war is taking place'

In August, during a meeting in Bonn, Germany with officials from Singapore defence agency DSTA held, Atzpodien claimed that Kockums "would no longer be capable of designing and building submarines", according to the source.

"A raging war is taking place between Kockums and TKMS," he said, explaining that the Singapore deal has brought the situation into sharp relief.

Among other things, Atzpodien disparaged Kockums plans for a new A26 class of submarine, claiming the Swedish firm didn't have enough engineers to complete the project, and that it was sure to be plagued with cost overruns and delays.

"Atzpodien has systematically ejected Kockums from the discussions and has barred Kockums from Singapore," the source explained.

TKMS has also complicated Kockums' chances for new contracts in Australia, another country where the Swedish shipbuilder has a strong presence, having designed and built six Collins-class submarines in the 1990s in what was one of the largest export deals ever at the time.

But Kockums found itself left out of a 2012 initial call for proposals from Australia to replace the aging subs with an off the shelf solution, while its German-based competitor and sister company HDW was one of three European firms asked to participate.

Earlier this year, however, Australia and Sweden did ink a deal allowing for Kockums to take part in the project, dubbed SEA 1000, which calls for the building of 12 new submarines.

But in the meantime, TKMS purchased an Australian naval defence firm, Australian Marine Technologies, that "could do the same job as Kockums could have done on its own," the source said.

"TKMS has here again torpedoed all the efforts of Kockums to run this future competition because it has already created its own footprint," the source told The Local.

A Swedish saviour?

The Swedish government, as well as officials with the primary defence procurement agency, the Defence Materiel Administration (FMV), has been made aware of the situation and have become so unhappy they have asked Swedish defence contractor Saab to look into a possible purchase of Kockums, a source within the Swedish defence industry told The Local.

"Discussions are taking place right now," according to the source, who agreed that TKMS is trying to strangle Sweden's ship building industry.

"The only reason TKMS owns Kockums is to stop them from exporting," the Swedish source explained, adding that the Swedish firm "could not exist" without export contracts.

Allan Widman, a Liberal Party (Folkpartiet) MP from Malmö and the party's defence policy spokesman said he is "worried" about Kockum's future in light of the rift with TKMS.

"Submarine building capabilities are essential for our armed forces and our ability to defend ourselves," he told The Local, adding that he had heard a number of "industry rumours" about the discord between TKMS and Kockums.

Adding to his concern is the fact that two years have passed since the Swedish parliament Riksdag approved funding for the development of the A26 submarine for the Swedish navy, but nothing has happened, reportedly due to concerns over ThyssenKrupp's ownership of Kockums.

"I hope Kockums isn't prevented from doing business with other countries. It's not constructive," said Widman, adding he would welcome Swedish ownership for the Karlskrona-based shipbuilder.

"I would have no objection to private Swedish ownership of Kockums," he said when asked about the Saab deal.

However, if the Swedish and German firms can't strike a suitable deal to resolve the situation, Widman said the dispute may require a "political solution".

"This is a matter that's vital to our national security," he said, stressing that he hopes both Germany and Sweden can maintain submarine building capacity.

"In the end, however, it may require a political dialogue between Sweden and Germany to find a suitable solution."

When reached by The Local for comment on the Saab-Kockums negotiations, a Saab spokesman refused to comment.

"We don't speculate on rumours like that," the spokesman said.

A spokesperson with FMV also chose not to comment citing an "ongoing procurement".

A spokesman with Kockums in Sweden also refused to comment on the reported disunity within TKMS, while spokeswoman with TKMS in Germany said the company was "unable to comment on market rumours".
"We don't speculate on rumours like that," the spokesman said.

A spokesperson with FMV also chose not to comment citing an "ongoing procurement".

A spokesman with Kockums in Sweden also refused to comment on the reported disunity within TKMS, while spokeswoman with TKMS in Germany said the company was "unable to comment on market rumours".

 

Source : http://www.thelocal....1015-52407.html

 

 

 

Du nouveau, apparemment :

 

 

 

Saab Is Angling To Take Control Of ThyssenKrupp Submarine Yard In Sweden

By Christopher Harress

on March 03 2014 1:11 PM

 

 

Three years ago, Kockums, the Swedish national submarine manufacturer was sold by the Swedish government to Germany’s ThyssenKrupp, but after uncertainty over jobs and boat building guarantees, it appears the Swedish government is angling for Saab to take control of the Malmo-based ship-building yard.

 

In a clear statement of intent, Sweden’s procurement agency FMV announced on Feb. 27 that it was allocating $3.84 million to test whether or not Saab had the ability to design and build the next generation of Swedish submarine.

 

The move was spawned by disappointment coming from the Swedish Defense Ministry that Thyssen wouldn’t give guarantees that ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, what Thyssen renamed the old Kockums yard in Malmo, would continue to be a large-vessel producer in the region. Additionally, the ministry was concerned because Thyssen hadn’t provided fixed prices for the delivery of two new A26 generation subs and mid-life refits for the Gotland-class submarine.

 

That said, the failure for TKMS to get finalize those contracts has put jobs in jeopardy, says Thyssen. But Saab’s emergence as a possible buyer for the yard, according to the Swedish Defense Ministry, is because it’s believed that Thyssen is going to reorganize the 1000 unionized workers in Malmo and is to begin the manufacturing of small-sized subs and surface vessels up to 1000 tons. The New A26 class boats and those awaiting refit are around 1900 tons.

 

The Swedish government procurement agency has said that Thyssen’s reluctance to ioffer fixed prices for the new boats and upgrades means it is currently not possible to move forward to the build stage as it is not practical, sustainable or best use of taxpayer’s money.

 

Saab has contended that it could meet the needs to design, build and refit submarines, however, it has declined to comment suggestions that it might take control of the TKMS yard. 

 

Source : http://www.ibtimes.com/saab-angling-take-control-thyssenkrupp-submarine-yard-sweden-1559035

Modifié le 8 mars 2014 par Skw

[pascal]

Excellent !!!

 

grosse ambiance chez Kockums TKMS les australiens heureux propriétaires de sous marins conçus par les suédois vont être ravis d'apprendre les conclusions des autorités suédoises

 

http://www.corlobe.tk/spip.php?article34572

[Skw]

Excellent !!! grosse ambiance chez Kockums TKMS. les australiens heureux propriétaires de sous marins conçus par les suédois vont être ravis d'apprendre les conclusions des autorités suédoises : http://www.corlobe.tk/spip.php?article34572

 

On s'y attendait un peu... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpEtyVOU3dU

 

 

Edit : je n'ai pas retrouvé l'article que j'avais pu lire, mais en fin d'article on retrouve un peu la même teneur (en allemand) :

http://www.n-tv.de/wirtschaft/Schweden-rekrutiert-U-Boot-Ingenieure-article12521616.html

Certains se demandent si TKMS n'est pas en train, avec sa position dure, de recréer un concurrent plus puissant que ne pouvait l'être Kockums...

Modifié le 10 avril 2014 par Skw

[Chaps]

Accrochage à une conférence Australienne sur les sous-marins entre le patron de TKMS et un vice amiral à la retraite suédois.

 

http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/submarines-german-swedish-tensions/ 

 

Résumé:

 

TKMS: nous ne comprenons pas le comportement du gouvernement suédois qui ne veut pas nous parler.

 

Amiral: la Suède a comme devoir de reprendre le contrôle de ses chantiers navals et de sa technologie sous-marine nationale. Le programme de TKMS est annulé et un autre programme sera fait par Saab. Avec 5 sous-marins au lieu de 4, merci Poutine.

 

TKMS: Tout doux mon petit monsieur, il y a des lois et nous sommes les propriétaires. On verra ce que l'Europe pensera du fait que vous nous retirez les commandes, la licence d'activité industrielle et débaucher nos employés en cachette. Vous mettez vos compatriotes salariés en danger.

[Bruno]

Accrochage à une conférence Australienne sur les sous-marins entre le patron de TKMS et un vice amiral à la retraite suédois.

 

http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/submarines-german-swedish-tensions/

 

Résumé:

 

TKMS: nous ne comprenons pas le comportement du gouvernement suédois qui ne veut pas nous parler.

 

Amiral: la Suède a comme devoir de reprendre le contrôle de ses chantiers navals et de sa technologie sous-marine nationale. Le programme de TKMS est annulé et un autre programme sera fait par Saab. Avec 5 sous-marins au lieu de 4, merci Poutine.

 

TKMS: Tout doux mon petit monsieur, il y a des lois et nous sommes les propriétaires. On verra ce que l'Europe pensera du fait que vous nous retirez les commandes, la licence d'activité industrielle et débaucher nos employés en cachette. Vous mettez vos compatriotes salariés en danger.

 

C'est "les feux de l'amour" entre suédois et allemands...

[French Kiss]

ET en prime, subodorant que les suedois ne vont pas tolerer ce petit jeu tres longtemps, je ne serais pas surpris que cela puisse pousser la Suede a prendre ses distances avec l'UE, surtout vue la position de la Suede par rapport a la Russie et le manque de reaction de l'UE face a celle-ci dans l'affaire ukrainienne.

[Chris.]

C'est "les feux de l'amour" entre suédois et allemands...

 

En même temps les allemands essaient de faire sombrer Kockums. Comment est-ce que la France aurait réagi si le rachat des chantiers de l'Atlantique par Aker Yards n'avait eu que pour but de faire sombrer les chantiers de l'Atlantique ? Surtout quand on voit la polémique que cela avait crée quand STX avait racheté Aker Yards et donc les chantiers de l'Atlantique...

[Bruno]

En même temps les allemands essaient de faire sombrer Kockums. Comment est-ce que la France aurait réagi si le rachat des chantiers de l'Atlantique par Aker Yards n'avait eu que pour but de faire sombrer les chantiers de l'Atlantique ? Surtout quand on voit la polémique que cela avait crée quand STX avait racheté Aker Yards et donc les chantiers de l'Atlantique...

 

C'est clair que l'attitude des allemands dans cette affaire est pour le moins dégueulasse

[French Kiss]

C'est clair que l'attitude des allemands dans cette affaire est pour le moins dégueulasse

 

Pas specialement, a priori c'est plutot du capitalisme liberal a l'allemande, une boite europeenne, US ou UK aurait fait sans doute de meme, il suffit de se rappeler le Giat avec la FN, cas qui etait evoque il n'y a pas si longtemps.

[g4lly]

C'est clair que l'attitude des allemands dans cette affaire est pour le moins dégueulasse

On fait bien la meme chose entre francais .... avec RTD qui liquident ACMAT et Panhard sans que ca gene personne.

[Philippe Top-Force]

On fait bien la meme chose entre francais .... avec RTD qui liquident ACMAT et Panhard sans que ca gene personne.

Voyons Rescator ferait des bonds en lisant ça. :P

[Philippe Top-Force]

Bon petit reportage dans le n°149 sur les nouveaux enjeux pour la marine suédoise, ils y parlent d'un avant projet à partir du nouveau design de Kockums d'une frégate très furtive de 110 mètres

[Chronos]

Accrochage à une conférence Australienne sur les sous-marins entre le patron de TKMS et un vice amiral à la retraite suédois.

 

http://www.aspistrategist.org.au/submarines-german-swedish-tensions/

 

Résumé:

 

TKMS: nous ne comprenons pas le comportement du gouvernement suédois qui ne veut pas nous parler.

 

Amiral: la Suède a comme devoir de reprendre le contrôle de ses chantiers navals et de sa technologie sous-marine nationale. Le programme de TKMS est annulé et un autre programme sera fait par Saab. Avec 5 sous-marins au lieu de 4, merci Poutine.

 

TKMS: Tout doux mon petit monsieur, il y a des lois et nous sommes les propriétaires. On verra ce que l'Europe pensera du fait que vous nous retirez les commandes, la licence d'activité industrielle et débaucher nos employés en cachette. Vous mettez vos compatriotes salariés en danger.

 

C'est une matière liée à la défense et à la sécurité. Normalement l'UE n'est pas compétente en vertu de l'article 346 TFUE. Il serait intéressant de voir ce que diraient les autorités européennes en cas de saisine du dossier et quelle interprétation pourrait sortir. 

[Philippe Top-Force]

La Suède à la recherche d'un mystérieux sous-marin étranger en mer Baltique par @lemondefr - http://t.co/H0p7IYkWdH via @Dailymotion

— Philippe Top-Action (@top_force)

October 20, 2014

 

La #Suède bredouille dans la chasse au mystérieux sous-marin http://t.co/tkyl8qzTik

— Le signaleur (@lesignaleurblog)

October 20, 2014

 

Je lis Sous-marin en mer baltique: “demandez donc aux Pays-Bas”, lance la Russie http://t.co/B9DHE7llwq

— Philippe Top-Action (@top_force)

October 20, 2014

 

Suède : reprise des recherches d’un possible sous-marin russe endommagé en mer Baltique http://t.co/AZX6WOQPos via @LesEchos

— Philippe Top-Action (@top_force)

October 19, 2014

 

Pas de situations anormales avec des sous-marins russes (ministère de la Défense) http://t.co/gAa5MxvkW0

— Philippe Top-Action (@top_force)

October 19, 2014