L'Inde

[Philippe Top-Force]

Boeing part à l'attaque.

http://www.lesechos.fr/info/aero/reuters_00117289.htm?xtor=EPR-1085

[P4]

Les Allemands aussi.

German Air Force Takes Eurofighter Typhoon to Aero India 2009

(Source: Eurofighter GmbH; issued February 3, 2009)

For the first time, the Luftwaffe will participate in an air show in Asia with fighter aircraft. AERO INDIA 2009 will take place from the 11th to 15th February, 2009, at Air Force Station Yelahanka, near Bangalore/India.

Four EUROFIGHTER Typhoons, Germany’s most advanced fighter aircraft, along with one Airbus A310 MRTT (Multi Role Transport Tanker) are scheduled to be arriving in India by 5th February, 2009. They will be presented to a broad and international community as part of the air show. EUROFIGHTER and A310 MRTT will stop over in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates on their way to India.

The Indian Air Force offered the Luftwaffe an opportunity to participate in AERO INDIA 2009 when they met at “Internationale Luftfahrtausstellung 2008”, in Berlin/Germany.

The deployment of EUROFIGHTER aircraft from Laage-Rostock/North-Eastern Germany and A310 MRTT from Cologne over a distance of about 5 000 miles is unique for the Luftwaffe and will provide broad experience of both technical and logistical procedures as well as know-how for future activities and operations.

The German delegation, lead by Deputy Commander 2nd Air Division, Brigadier General Harald Riedel, will be departing with about 70 personnel on 4th February 2009 to ensure the smooth deployment and safe operations within the air show’s programme.

After conclusion of the air show, the German aircraft will be re-deployed to their respective home-bases by 16th February, 2009.

[P4]

Boeing part à l'attaque.

http://www.lesechos.fr/info/aero/reuters_00117289.htm?xtor=EPR-1085

Les projections de Boeing pour l'Inde pourraient être revues dans la mesure où son secteur de la défense s'ouvre à la suite d'un accord dans le nucléaire civil signé avec les USA en novembre, explique Lall.

Pour la première fois en 30 ans, grâce à cet accord, l'Inde aura accès à des technologies et combustibles nucléaires sur le marché international. "Le renforcement des relations entre les USA et l'Inde nous a vraiment aidés. Il se passe maintenant des choses dans le secteur de la défense qui étaient impensables voici quelques années", poursuit Lall.

Pour le nuc c'est pas encore pour les US, Areva signs deal to build nuclear plants in India

NEW DELHI: U.S. politicians and business executives spent years negotiating an agreement to give India access to civilian nuclear technology, but a French company may reap the first rewards of the deal.

Areva, which is mostly owned by the French government, said Wednesday that it had partnered with the state-run Nuclear Power Corp. of India Ltd., or Npcil, to build at least two and possibly as many as six nuclear power plants in the energy-starved country. The deal could be worth as much as $10 billion, Indian government officials said.

Que DA nous fasse pas encore un site web de naze  >:(

[Darkjmfr]

Comme je le disais dans le thread eurofighter, les rafales ne seront pas présents à air india...

[P4]

Drang nach Osten

The Indian air force extended the invitation to the Luftwaffe during last year's ILA air show in Berlin. The Luftwaffe will use the 8,000-kilometer deployment to gain experience with the new technical and logistical procedures of the two aircraft types involved. The flight was the first aerial refueling of a Eurofighter by a German tanker, according to the German Ministry of Defense.

C'est suite à l'invitation des forces aérienne Indienne.

[P4]

German Air Force Successfully Deployed to AERO INDIA 2009

German Air Force delegation safely landed at Air Force Station of Yelahanka, near Bangalore/India, at 1340 h CET, today. After a stop-over at Abu Dhabi Air Force Base, United Arab Emirates, three Eurofighter, Germany’s most advanced fighter aircraft, along with an Airbus A310 MRTT (Multi Role Transport Tanker) successfully completed their first-time deployment to an Asian country to participate in the bi-annual air show.

Ils sont bien arrivé mais il n'y a que trois EF et pas quatre.

[Philippe Top-Force]

Un article de TTU sur le Gripen NG pour l'Inde

http://www.ttu.fr/francais/Articles/Industrie%20%26%20materiels/gripennginde.html

[P4]

Indian Fighters: Expensive, Frustrating and Irresistible

Posted by Bill Sweetman at 2/11/2009 7:00 AM CST

..................................

....................................

At the same time, nobody's willing to criticise the RFP process in public. I have heard here that one competitor already came close to getting ridden out of town on a rail for that offense. So expect a lot of "industry sources say" in the next few days. Loose lips sink campaigns!

A votre avis Il parle de la remarque de JD Levitte?

[P4]

AERO INDIA: French minister defends Rafale's Aero India no-show

French minister of state for defence Jean-Marie Bockel has defended the country's failure once again to deploy any Dassault Aviation Rafale fighter aircraft to participate in the Aero India airshow, blaming operational requirements in Afghanistan.

The Rafale is in competition with five European, Russian and US fighter types to meet the Indian Air Force's lucrative 126-aircraft medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) requirement.

"First of all, Rafale will be on display in Le Bourget [at the 2009 Paris Air Show] and will be available for those who want to test it," says Bockel, speaking at Aero India 2009 in Bangalore.

"Number two, all the Rafales that could have been sent to India for this airshow are presently in operation in the fight in Afghanistan," he adds. "I was there personally last week, and they are giving the coalition very efficient and very appreciated support and all the members of the coalition and the Afghan government itself are recognising this fact, because Rafale is a very flexible plane able to carry out several missions."

........................

[TMor]

Bien la réaction !  :lol: En gros :

"Excusez nous de ne pas être venus vous faire le show, nous on peut et on fait la guerre avec notre avion, d'abord."

[Mani]

Bien la réaction !  :lol: En gros :

"Excusez nous de ne pas être venus vous faire le show, nous on peut et on fait la guerre avec notre avion, d'abord."

  :lol:  ^-^

[TMor]

A propos de l'Inde, et de l'affaire Snecma, j'ai relevé un message sur un autre forum :

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4284&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=280

Ca date seulement d'hier.

Ok.... this is the GTRE story - (someone come up with sad music plz).... from the Aeroseminar.

An overview of the Kaveri situation was provided by the GTRE director, T. Mohan Rao, who was accompanied by his senior scientists. The hall was packed, and the language and tone of his speech was sadly self-depracating and pleading. Almost as if DRDO has also started losing faith - he had to explain whats going on and why its happening. Sad to see, but there are clear silver linings in the story.

1. He pointed out that the change in IAF requirements and the increase in all up wt by 2 tons killed the Kaveri as they knew it, simply because it could not in any way be able to achieve the new requirements... he was quite angry that they had been blamed for what was obviously not their fault, ie, a low-performing Kaveri for the updated reqs. Bypass Ratio is 0.16 to 0.18... he pointed out that if it had to meet the new stds, the bypass would have to be at least 0.35 to 0.45.

2. 4 Cores and 8 Kaveris built, 1800 hrs testing done.

Thrsut demonstrated: 4774 kgf dry (design value reached). 7000 kgf reheat (2.5-3% shortfall)

3. Pressure ratio - 21.5 overall.

Fan - 3 stage, 3.4 pressure ratio, Surge margin>20.

Compressor 6.4 pressure,Surge>23.

Combustor - efficiency >99%, high intensity annular combustor. Pattern factor of 0.35 and 0.14

Note: These are ACHIEVED values.

4. The present Kaveri will not power combat LCAs, although it will be fitted to an LCA within 9 months. The new program, which is the Kaveri with Snecma Eco core of 90kN will be used. The preslim design studies and configuration have beeen completed.

5.Birdhit requirements of 85% thrust after hit at 0.4-0.5 Mach have been shown and achieved.

6. He pointed out the major factor in delays being them not being given enough infrastructure and testing facilities - Govt has not given funds, babus have sat on them. Instead, they have had to go to CIAM in Russia and Anecom in Germany for tests.

He mentioned that this was the biggest problem - one of the issues they have was in engine strain and the blade throws - they tried to isolate all the causes for 3 yrs, but only when they took it to CIAM for the Non Intrusive Strain Measurement (NSMS) tests did they realize that there were excess vibrations of the 3rd order of engine frequency being developed.... imagine if the facility was there in india.

Then, the compressor tests also, it was only at the Anecom that they could see that the 1st 2 stages were surged by 20%, while the rest were "as dead as government servants" (his quote - shows how low on confidence they are i guess). He pointed out that that would have saved a lot of time and money if that facility was in india. They have since fixed the issue.

Then, the afterburner tests, (the much highlighted high altitude failure) at CIAM - the reqt is for 50% thrust boost over dry thrust at 88% efficiency. The K5 prototype failed in 2003, after working perfectly in the GTRE. They realized that they could not achieve lightup at high altitudes (Dry thrust worked ok).

They took anothe new engine block and the afterburner worked perfectly and has been certified to 15 km.

7. The good news..... they will conduct complete engine trials in CIAM in March. If these trials are successful (and they are highly confident), the Kaveri will be integrated on the LCA within 9 months.

The KADECU FADEC system with manual backup has also been fully certified.

8. The bad news again - The present requirements would need the core to pump out 15-20% more power, which is impossible... hence the eco. Not that there is anything wrong with the core.

He mentioned that otherwise, the Kaveri has met the original requirements, or will meet within the next month, and is good for all other uses except a "combat LCA" - ie, CAT, LIFT, LCA Trainer, etc.

9. When asked where we lack, he mentioned 4 key areas

a. BLISK - integrated single Blade and Disk

b. Single Crystal blades - he categorically said - We do not have that tech at all.

c. Thermal Barrier Coatings - TBC - very critical for high temp engine operation. A talk on this by an American Indian prof attracted a house full audience. He mentioned that this is highly critical and export controlled, so they dont have it.

The last two points were mentioned by Dir, DMRL as one of their areas of research, but I was not able to quiz him on it. PLEASE QUIZ ANY DMRL GUYS U MEET ON THIS.

Mohan Rao appealed that people should realize that this tech takes time, and money, and more importantly, willpower and support.... its not being given by foriegn nations, so if we have to develop, it needs support. This stance found strong support from Saraswat, Sundaram and Selvamurthy in the closing ceremony.

They are not looking at TVC just yet, and it is in the hands of other labs at the moment.

However, the ADE presentation on UCAVs showed a future Indian UCAV (2015) with no tail (MCA design), a non-conventional wingform, and a 3 axis TVC.

10. OK, some nos....

Fan - Successful tests at CIAM

Compressor: (nos in brackets are design values)

6 stage axial flow, 3 stage variable vanes with IGVs.

Corr. tip speed ~370 m/s

Inlet diam: 590 mm

Mass flow: 24.13 kg/s (24.3)

Pressure: 6.42 (6.38)

Efficiency: 85.4% (85%)

Surge %: 21.6 (20% designed)

Combustor:

Has undergone aero testing at CIAM

K8 V4 combustor is close to design.

Turbine:

Pressure = 3.6

Mass flow function= 1.1

Isentropic eff = 85%

Max. TET = 1700K

Is a success, has met design.

11. Future uses:

Navy - KMGT - 1 MW for small ships being developed, 5-6 MW KMGT is a sucess and runs on Diesel, instead of the usual kerosene aviation fuel.

The railways also wants a 7-8MW CNG run engine, which will be a challenge in terms of fuel supply, rather than teh combustion itself, which shouldn't be a problem.

Any qns???

Je reprends :

The new program, which is the Kaveri with Snecma Eco core of 90kN will be used.

De la bouche de T. Mohan Rao directeur de GTRE, ils bossent avec la Snecma pour utiliser le cœur du Eco.

Les gars de l'IAF qui râlaient n'ont sans doute pu faire que ça : râler.

[Darkjmfr]

C'est beau l'Inde :)

[TMor]

A votre avis Il parle de la remarque de JD Levitte?

Je viens de réaliser de quoi tu parlais.

En effet, ça m'en a tout l'air.

Pour ceux qui ne suivent pas :

http://www.air-defense.net/Forum_AD/index.php?topic=463.msg357345#msg357345

[Darkjmfr]

Certainement, d'ailleurs je me demande si ce n'est pas Dassault qui a failli se faire éjecter après cette tirade. En autre candidat, peut être le gripen, les rumeurs de non-sélection comme il y en a eu ces derniers jours pourraient être une forme d'avertissement.

[P4]

Avec ce salon aero India il y a pleins de nouvelles.

Airbus propose des A330 MRTT, Airbus releases Indian A330 MRTT images, ils ont pas osé mettre des EF dérrière le tanker.

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=27485

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=27486

Pour ce qui du Kaveri et SNECMA le chemin sera encore long et douloureux, India's LCA unlikely to use Kaveri engine until late next decade

The GTRE is also likely to work with French engine manufacturer Snecma on the Kaveri, although the two sides have yet to reach an agreement for joint development and testing, and for the transfer of technology and manufacturing. "Discussions with Snecma have been going on for two years," says Natarajan. "Development and flight-testing of the new engine will take at least five to six years."

En attendant c'est GE qui refourgue des F404 pour équiper les premiers Téjas. :-[

[roland]

Si ils éjectent un candidat juste pour une petite remarque, c'est qu'ils avaient pas l'intention d'acheter a ce candidat du départ. Faudrait refaire quelques remarques histoire de voir si ils considèrent la candidature de Dassault sérieusement.

Quand au transfert de technologie de SNECMA pour le Kaveri, tant que le deal MRCA n'est pas joué, ils peuvent toujours rèver. Et si c'est pas signé pour Dassault ils pourrons toujours aller se gratter ailleurs.

Pas sérieux ces Indiens, prennent vraiemnt les gens pour des anes.

[P4]

Le deal MRCA semble etre une belle carotte, voila un projet Indien du DRDO(DGA locale) qui pourrait convenir, à moins que ce soit le clone d'un Pak-fa, en tout état de cause l'objéctif de tous ces contrats ajournés/relancés est l'asquisition de téchnologies et d'éxpertises, mine de rien ils sont trés cohérent dans leurs démarches.

en grand

en grand

en grand

en grand

[collectionneur]

Sur la chaîne de télé russe en anglais, ils ont annoncé il y 2 jours que les chasseurs russes avaient remporté un grot contrat face au F/A-18 US C'est confirmé ?

[Philippe Top-Force]

Sur la chaîne de télé russe en anglais, ils ont annoncé il y 2 jours que les chasseurs russes avaient remporté un grot contrat face au F/A-18 US C'est confirmé ?

La désinformation et l'intox sont des armes. C'est bien connu et surtout de la part des Russes, Boeing s'y voit, les Russes aussi,...les Européens espèrent.

126 Avions, du nucléaire civil, une coopération et des accords, chacun joue sa particition et près à obtenir le bout du gras.

Donc, résumons, Russes, Américains et Français sont sur la ligne de départ, un seul vainqueur. Les Indiens pouvant tous les tenir par les "bollocks"  :lol:

[Berkut]

En fait je me demande même si le vainqueur sera vraiment gagnant dans cette affaire avec tout ce qu'il aura dû mettre sur la table (et en dessous) pour remporter le contrat.

[Philippe Top-Force]

En fait je me demande même si le vainqueur sera vraiment gagnant dans cette affaire avec tout ce qu'il aura dû mettre sur la table (et en dessous) pour remporter le contrat.

D'autant plus qu'avec les Indiens, ils ont le temps et la montre. Ils veulent jouer sur tous les tableaux. Reconnaissance internationale, nucléaire, armement, puissance régionale, intérêts vitaux, transferts de technologies.

Néanmoins, Bombay a déjà passé commande par dizaine de P8 Poseidon, de C130-30 J, de Chinook à Washington. Et ce n'est qu'un début.

[P4]

Oui mais l'achat des C130 est marginal en valeur vis à vis des gros contrats et dans un cas(C130) comme dans l'autre(P8) les deux industriels concourent pour le MRCA.

[Philippe Top-Force]

Oui mais l'achat des C130 est marginal en valeur vis à vis des gros contrats et dans un cas(C130) comme dans l'autre(P8) les deux industriels concourent pour le MRCA.

Tu plaisantes  :lol: il fallait regarder les montants annoncés pour ces 3 contrats que je viens de parler. Washington a eu la main lourde. Tant mieux si Bombay a l'argent.

[Berkut]

Ouais... Si seulement ce foutu A400M n'était pas une arlésienne, nous aurions pu espérer en vendre quelques uns mais vu que chez EADS on aime bien se coller des balles de le pied en faisant la victime après, on regarde les contrats colossaux se faire en chouinant dans son coin. EADS, ou la version industrielle de Caliméro. (et je ne parle même pas des hélos...)