ALI Ici on cause fusil

[semper_fidelis]

Quelqu'un saurait faire un copier-coller de l'article ? J'arrive pas à me connecter au site... merci d'avance...

[Krogort]

My unit is fielding the SCAR starting next week.

This is the full SCAR system (heavy, light, grenade launcher etc.)

I want to do a review on it.

I haven’t followed its development very closely, so I'm not sure what features or aspects I should you might want me to give special attention to.

I had the opportunity to briefly fire the heavy and light versions a year ago.

I was somewhat skeptical going into the shoot, but was favorably impressed in the end.

I believe it has evolved somewhat since then, so I’ll have to give it a fresh look.

If you’re interested, please give me some input on what you want to see in a review and I'll do my best to provide the info.

1st UPDATE..

Thank you all for your suggestions. We are finished with our initial evaluation.

When I solicited input, I didn't yet know exactly what type of "fielding" this would be.

Unfortunately, it did not answer all the questions posted here.

We will keep the rifles indefinitely, but won't have a chance to test them again for some time.

Due to my personal circumstances, I will not be involved in any more testing or evaluation.

I'll post a review as soon as I get a few minutes to type something up....

Review..

We were each given a MK16 (SCAR Light) and a MK17 (SCAR Heavy). We shared two MK13 EGLMs (grenade launcher) amongst 12 of us.

On day 1, we sat through several hours of power-point and learned about the weapon.

We then took them to the range, zeroed and familiarized ourselves with them.

We each put 250 rnds through each weapon.

On day 2, we fired the MK13 grenade launcher.

On day 3, we took the MK16 and MK17 back to the range for further evaluation.

We each fired an additional 750 rnds of 5.56 and approximately 400 additional rounds of 7.62

The MK16 and MK17 are very similar.

Most of the comments made about one apply to the other.

That being said, in this review, I am specifically referring to the MK16 unless otherwise stated.

I tried to remain objective in facts and honest in opinion.

My opinion is my own and does not reflect the opinions of other shooters.

Other shooters have a lot more experience than I do. Some liked the weapon more than I did; some liked it less.

I have no intention of stirring controversy, so keep your arguments out of the technical forum.

I’ll check back later to address further questions as they arise.

- Accuracy

We only used military issued, 62 grn for the MK16 and 147 grn for the MK17.

25 meters (prone, supported).

MK16, iron sights or eotech, groups were no larger than 1/4".

MK17, iron sights: 1/4", Elcan 4X: 1/8" (the rounds were usually through the same hole)

The scope of this initial test did not include shooting for groups on paper past 25M.

We did however engage pop-up targets out to 900M.

The accuracy of the rifle was very acceptable.

Some shooters routinely made hits @ 900M w/ the MK17 w/ 4X optic. I got lucky occasionally.

- Reliability

It is difficult to judge with as few rounds as we put through them.

Not everyone had exactly the same experience with reliability.

This is probably something that needs larger sample size and more controlled testing.

Bear in mind that these were brand spanking new guns. We had to clean the cosmoline off them.

They may have needed a little break in.

MK16:

FTE: I had one FTE at the very end of the 4th mag. It looks like the brass either didn’t clear the ejection port, or deflected off something and ended up back in the ejection port.

FTF: I had 2 double-feeds around 500 and 700 rounds.

I had two other failures that were probably caused by outside factors.

1st: The reciprocating charging handle struck my thumb and caused it the gun to short stroke.

2nd: While shooting with the gun sideways, almost touching the ground (simulating shooting under cover), I had another double feed.

I’m not sure how that would have caused this, but it was under unusual shooting conditions, so I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt.

I also tested function with the gas regulator on the wrong setting.

Shooting non-suppressed with the setting on suppressed, the gun short stroked about every 5th round.

MK17:

FTE: none

FTF: I had 2 FTF with the MK17; a double feed on the second round fired and a double feed half way through the 5th mag.

When testing function with the gas regulator on the wrong setting, I had the same result as with the MK16.

- Durability

Durability was not really within the scope of this initial review.

I will say that I remain somewhat skeptical of some of the plastic parts.

- The receiver, stock and op-rod, selector switch, parts of the BUIS, are all plastic.

- I did not attempt “Pogo Stick Clearing”, but am reasonably sure the charging handle would never hold up to that.

- Round count durability: not able to judge yet.

- The Bolt and Carrier group appear to be very solid

- Stock

Telescoping: six positions. The button for adjusting the length needs to be very firmly depressed.

I don't usually make a lot of adjustments to length on the fly, but it was a little annoying.

Adjustable comb: felt very chinsey initially, but I gained a little confidence in it as I used it.

I slammed it with my palm and it had some give. It felt like it might break, so I didn’t try it again.

I was not able to collapse it by squeezing it.

Folding: The stock unlocks from the extended position by means of a large, recessed metal button.

It locks into the folded position on the brass deflector.

The brass deflector is made of plastic and has a groove cut out of it that hooks on a ridge on the stock.

The hinge itself is made of polymer

The stock is apparently designed to very quickly and easily go from folded to extended.

A vigorous shake of the rifle will pop the stock out of its folded position.

The lock into the extended position is much more sturdy and requires deliberate effort to unlock.

- Ambidextrous Capability

The ejection port will always be on the right.

The stock will always fold to the right.

The bolt release is only on the left.

Almost everything else is ambidextrous.

Due to the stock folding to the right, the right side is limited to one sling attachment point whereas the left has two.

The selector switches on either side are different sizes.

They are reversible, but it is set up with the larger switch on the left side.

Shooting left-handed was comfortable and I didn’t get any brass in my face.

Selector Switch:

I found myself using the selector switches on both sides pretty regularly.

I think that is because neither of them are easy to use for all functions.

The current model (MOD 0) has 90 degrees between each setting similar to the M4.

The selector switch either needs to move back ¼”, or have longer paddles, or have only 45 degrees between positions.

I would have to try different configurations to say what would work better, but the current configuration needs to change. That is an easy fix though.

- Gas system

The gas system has two positions: suppressed and normal.

The selector knob is sturdy and easy to manipulate.

It must be removed to access the piston. It is not difficult to remove the knob.

I used a small flat-head screwdriver to depress the retaining detent.

The gas vents through 2 very small holes on each side of the regulator, just behind the front sight.

I didn’t notice any design feature that would prevent excess carbon build up.

I found it interesting that the piston head has gas rings very similar to the rings on an M4 bolt.

The rings need to remain off-set.

The piston is very short, probably 2 ½ inches.

It strikes the face of the BCG on the very bottom at what appears to be the center of mass line.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture17.jpg

- How clean and cool does it run?

It lived up to its claim. It stayed cool in the receiver and was easy to clean.

There was no scraping required, except in the gas system.

A simple wipe-down took care of everything else.

The chamber is deep and was not real easy to access.

The barrel removes easily though if easier access is needed.

Even the carbon in the chamber did not require scraping.

The BCG rides on rails inside the upper receiver.

These were not real easy to reach around for cleaning.

The extractor is not removed at the operator level.

With the very limited carbon introduced into the receiver, it is not thought to be necessary.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture25.jpg

- Quick change actually quick?

The barrel is secured by means of six star-head screws.

The screws do not come all the way out so they won't get lost.

A torque wrench is supplied with each rifle for proper tightening.

IOT maintain MOA accuracy, a certain sequence for tightening the screws must be followed.

It is very easy to accomplish at the operator level assuming you have a star screw driver and a torque wrench.

I never timed myself, but it shouldn’t be difficult to remove the barrel in less than a minute and to install it in just over a minute.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture23.png

I did encounter one problem though:

The barrel is free-floating. The six o'clock rail is remains with the barrel.

There is a block attached to the forward portion of the six o-clock rail.

It receives the screws that attach from the forward portion of the handguard.

The block is made of aluminum, while the screws are made of steel.

The threading in one of the holes was already stripped when I received the rifle.

FN is already aware of this defect and is replacing the aluminum block with steel.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture24.png

- Trigger Pull

The trigger felt very similar to the standard M4 trigger, though probably a little lighter.

It's exactly what I would want in a carbine.

The "trigger module" is analogous to the lower receiver of an M4.

It includes the plastic housing, the internal trigger parts, and the pistol grip.

It is considered a single component.

If anything goes bad in the trigger module, rather than repair it, the entire module is replaced. "It costs $11."

- Recoil, muzzle rise

Some of the guys thought the recoil felt lighter than the M4.

I don’t necessarily agree with that. I think it was not as sharp though. It was more of a push than a kick.

Muzzle rise was up and right. I think there was less muzzle rise than with an M4.

When firing the gun on automatic, I was very impressed with its controllability.

It was easy to keep a long burst on the silhouette at 25m.

ETA: cyclic rate is only 625. It was nice and slow.

- Charging handle proximity to optics rail

This stuck out to me immediately.

Depending on what optic is used and where it is mounted, it can interfere with manipulating the charging handle.

After a few monkey bites on my hand, I learned to use my finger tips to charge the weapon.

This needs to be addressed IMO.

The top rail is already high over the bore and the charging handle is already close to the lower hand. It may be as simple as redesigning the optics mount.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture2.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture3.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture7.jpg

- Reciprocating Charging Handle

I remembered to keep my thumb down most of the time, but while practicing switching back and forth between strong hand and week hand, the charging handle caught me.

My thumb slowed it down enough that it caused a FTF.

It was not painful enough with 5.56 to learn my lesson.

I did it again with 7.62. That hurt.

Apparently, it was one of the design criteria put forth by SOCOM.

The tec explained that it is the simplest system and gives the most direct control over the function of the weapon.

Because it is directly attached to the BCG, it can be used as a forward-assist.

If I ever rode the bolt forward, it would not lock.

I tapped on the charging handle to no effect.

I smacked the charging handle forward and got it to lock the bolt. It was the same each time I tried it.

I had to hit it hard enough that it was a little painful.

I am not sold on the reciprocating charging handle.

If it were not reciprocating, they might even be able to lower it enough that optics mounts would no longer interfere.

As demonstrated by the FTF, it is potentially a liability in the reliability of the weapon.

- Flash signature with gas regulator

In these first 3 days, we only shot in daylight.

I never noticed any flash signature from the gas regulator.

The ports where the excess gas bleeds off are located very near the regulator knob, below the front site.

With the MK16, I only used the 10" barrel.

The gas ports were inches from the muzzle.

I don't think I would notice them separate from the muzzle flash.

- Running it dry

On the first day, it was well oiled.

On the second day we took the rifles out, I wiped off all the oil I could.

There was still some oil in the cracks, but overall it was fairly dry.

The little oil that remained did not cook off or dry up because the gun stays cool.

I did not notice any problems due to lack of lube.

- Ejection

Both models ejected pretty consistently to the 3 o'clock.

There was an audible ring at each shot.

I am fairly certain that the ring can be attributed to the AAC flash hider.

My AAC flash hiders do the same thing.

- Mags (drop free, fit, bolt catch, reliability)

I used a variety of mags: Aluminum GI, H&K steel, FN steel, P-Mag, Lancer polymer mag and 40 rnd Precision Mag Industries mag.

Neither of the polymer mags dropped free.

All of the metal mags dropped free.

All of the 30 round mags fed reliably.

The BCG hung up on the rear of the 40rnd mag.

All mags except for the Lancers activated the bolt catch.

The MK17 uses FN FAL mags. They worked fine.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture8.jpg

.

- Reloads

Reloads were quick and easy. Switching mags felt very natural.

- "Softness/Brittleness" of plastic

The polymer is very dense.

It is a little on the soft side, so it is not likely to crack very easily.

It is not so soft though that it bends or deforms easily.

It feels like a pretty good balance in strength and rigidity.

- Clearing Failures

With the charging handle and the bolt catch on the same side, it was a bit tricky locking the bolt back.

None of the failures I had required that, but I can see how it could be an issue.

Otherwise, it was exactly the same as with an M4.

- Shooting with folded stock

Not a good idea. It was not very controllable.

The MK17 was especially difficult to control with no stock.

- Sling attachment points and slings

There is a sling attachment point on the very front on either side of the gun.

It is a hook designed to accept HK or similar hardware.

I don’t like my sling to attach that far forward, so I bolted on a provided sling attachment point to the rear of the 9 o’clock rail.

I would have preferred to mount it further back, closer to the receiver, but it worked fine.

For single point sling, there are two attachment points on the rear of the receiver and one on the right side.

It was easy to switch between 2-point and single-point configuration with these attachment points.

I never used any points on the right side.

In single point configuration, when I fired weak-side, I had to point the muzzle upward so the stock would clear the sling before I could seat it in my left shoulder.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture20.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/fluwoebers/scar/Picture21.jpg

Overall:

I liked it more than I thought I would. I am confident that the weapon functions reliably.

It is comfortable to handle and shoot.

The durability of some of the plastic parts is questionable.

It could use several minor modifications to improve function.

Compared to M4:

Feel of the rifle:

I prefer the ergonomics of the M4. That is probably largely due to my familiarity with it, but the M4 feels better to me.

The SCAR felt a bit clunky.

The 12 o’clock rail is higher over the bore.

The front hand guards are taller.

The butt stock is quite thick.

I don’t like the way the butt stock slopes down off the receiver as compared to the straight buffer tube on the M4.

It causes you to absorb a little bit of the recoil in your face instead of your shoulder.

With the 7.62 version, this got pretty old after several hundred rounds.

The balance is very good.

The action feels very smooth.

It doesn’t have that hollow scraping sound like the M4 when you charge it.

Durability:

I am more confident in the durability of the M4.

I think FN went a little overboard with trying to make everything plastic.

Reliability:

This is tough to compare with as little experience as I have with it.

There were a few failures. These could be attributed to the break-in time or other factors.

Anecdotally, I don’t think it is any worse than the M4.

I would not be at all surprised if controlled testing showed it is more reliable.

Accuracy:

I think it is very comparable to the M4 in accuracy.

We didn’t test for groups on paper past the 25m zero target.

My groups were at least as tight as I usually get with an M4.

Engaging targets out to 300m was pretty easy.

User Friendliness:

I prefer the M4 selector switch. This is an easy fix for the SCAR.

I don’t like the reciprocating charging handle.

I think it creates more problems then it fixes.

It is more limiting in sling attachment.

The M4 does not have a problem with optics interfering with the charging handle.

Bottom Line:

The SCAR is a good system. I’m not ready to give up my M4.

As the SCAR evolves over the next couple years, it will be a top-of-the line rifle.

I’m not convinced that it is worth the cost to purchase and train on a completely new system.

En gros il reproche surtout au SCAR son ergonomie, c'est vrais que de ce coté la le M4 est un modele du genre, enfin pour peu qu'on soit droitier.

Le truc du levier d'armement c'est gros quand meme ! étonant qu'ils l'aient pas corrigé avant, surtout que sur les photo de présentation de l'arme d'il y a quelques années le probleme est bien visible.

http://

[semper_fidelis]

Merci pour le post...

ça me scie en deux pour le levier d'armement... c'est compliqué de le déplacer ? enfin, c'est réalisable ? --> en gros, avoir une 4th generation du SCAR.

Question d'ordre plus technique : c'est quoi un FTE et un FTF ?

[Chris.]

une modification assez simple à faire, serait, je pense, de changer le levier.

au lieu de prendre un droit, il faudrait en prendre un du genre suivant:

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(vue de coupe du fusil, celui-ci se trouve à gauche (traits | )

faut juste voir, si, du coté où il y a la fenetre d'éjection, cela n'intèrphère pas avec l'éjection de la douille;

[Kiriyama]

Je pense qu'un bon armurier doit pourvoir bricoler un nouveau levier d'armement.

[semper_fidelis]

une modification assez simple à faire, serait, je pense, de changer le levier.

au lieu de prendre un droit, il faudrait en prendre un du genre suivant:

|_

|  \_

|

(vue de coupe du fusil, celui-ci se trouve à gauche (traits | )

faut juste voir, si, du coté où il y a la fenetre d'éjection, cela n'intèrphère pas avec l'éjection de la douille;

Bon je ne suis pas spécialiste... mais je crois que le gars se plaignait de s'être pris le levier d'armement sur les doigts lors des séances de tir surtout pour la mk17. Vu que le levier recule assez violemment, je pense que la forme que tu as dessinée, ne correspondrait pas vraiment.

La FN pourrait pencher sur un levier plus en avant de l'arme ? comme le magpul ?

[P4]

Voila des quidam ne rencontrant pas de problème avec le levier d'armement.

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=T429r4NHs8I

ils ne sont pas au stand ou en opération  mais faut pas pousser avec cette histoire.

[Chris.]

Bon je ne suis pas spécialiste... mais je crois que le gars se plaignait de s'être pris le levier d'armement sur les doigts lors des séances de tir surtout pour la mk17. Vu que le levier recule assez violemment, je pense que la forme que tu as dessinée, ne correspondrait pas vraiment.

La FN pourrait pencher sur un levier plus en avant de l'arme ? comme le magpul ?

je pensais surtout à cela pour résoudre le problème des optiques encombrantes...

en baissant le levier (enfin la partie que l'utilisateur tire) sans baisser l'endroit où eil est fixé à la culasse, ça doit régler ce problème sans engendrer de couteuses modifications.

[Chris.]

video montrant le changement de canon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqqWdPivn_Y

la vitesse et la simplicité de remontage de l'arme m'impressionne (bon, elle est peut-être pas complètement démontée, au niveau de la culasse).  :O

[Chris.]

puisque j'en suis au démontage/montage...

4 videos montrant le démontage et le remontage assez complet de 4 armes différentes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG4mpHX3tJs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZs8Q4uHNuw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFWzA-EYU4U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Std-jWuzlP4

la facilité et la rapidité de démontage du SCAR est assez impressionnante je trouve...

il y a vraiment peu de pièces...

A coté, même le HK416 et le XM-8 sont largués...

d'ailleurs, si le petit papa noel voulait bien m'offrir un SCAR pour remplacer mon SIG, je lui en serrais très reconnaissant.  :lol:

(le sig n'étant pas un fusil compliqué à démonter, mais face au SCAR, il ne rivalise de loin pas...)

[Drakene]

En même temps le SCAR n'est pas démonté complètement contrairement au HK-416.

De plus pour avoir eu les 2 armes en main je trouve le SCAR plus lourd et plus emconbrant que le HK-416, bien que théoriquement ils fassent le même poids (je ne sais pas d'où cela peu venir, équilibrage ou autre ???).

Personnellement avant de les avoir eux en main je préférais le SCAR mais finalement ma préférence vas au HK-416.

[g4lly]

Bon je ne suis pas spécialiste... mais je crois que le gars se plaignait de s'être pris le levier d'armement sur les doigts lors des séances de tir surtout pour la mk17. Vu que le levier recule assez violemment, je pense que la forme que tu as dessinée, ne correspondrait pas vraiment.

La FN pourrait pencher sur un levier plus en avant de l'arme ? comme le magpul ?

Le plus simple serait un levier escamontable, qui se rabattrait vers l'avant comme ca s'il tape quelques chose en reculant il se rabat. Faut juste prévoir un petit goujon en bout de levier pour pouvoir le déployer facilement avec les gant, et un arret a 90° pour qu'il reste en position déployé sans etre branlant. Au besoi n s'il faut pousser fort sur le levier on peut le faire avec telescopique. Sortie il bascule poussé vers l'arme il est bloqué, des quon relache il bascule.

A quoi sert leur deux élément en plastique noir vissé en avant de la fenetre d'ejection ? y en a un de chaque coté ...

[BTK]

Question d'ordre plus technique : c'est quoi un FTE et un FTF ?

FTE = Failure To Eject

FTF = Failure To Feed

[P4]

A quoi sert leur deux élément en plastique noir vissé en avant de la fenetre d'ejection ? y en a un de chaque coté ...

C'est la visserie qui permet de maintenir le canon dans le garde main.

[g4lly]

Amusez vous ;) http://www.google.com/squared/search?q=guns

[g4lly]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/

Double feed in SKS kills operator: A warning to all of us

Travis, an attorney, is suing Norinco and the importer of a Norinco SKS after a person was killed while operating one.

The scenario was as follows. A chambered round failed to fired. The user pulled back the bolt but the round failed to ejected. The user then dropped the rifle to the side of their body in order to inspect the action. The detachable 30 round magazine had not been removed and the bolt was let go. The second round slammed into and ignited the primer causing the chambered round’s casing to explode. It sent the bullet down range and a piece of the casing into the users stomach, causing death.

...

Enlever le chargeur ou les coups restant avant de controler un incident de tir ... si possible.

[Kiriyama]

Salut ! Quekqu'un sait à quoi servent les piles dans la crosse de ce Remington 870 ?

[Krogort]

Reserve pour laser/aimpoint/surefire/autre ?

[Kiriyama]

Oui, en effet, bien possible.

[Berkut]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/06/08/double-feed-in-sks-kills-operator-a-warning-to-all-of-us/

Double feed in SKS kills operator: A warning to all of us

Travis, an attorney, is suing Norinco and the importer of a Norinco SKS after a person was killed while operating one.

The scenario was as follows. A chambered round failed to fired. The user pulled back the bolt but the round failed to ejected. The user then dropped the rifle to the side of their body in order to inspect the action. The detachable 30 round magazine had not been removed and the bolt was let go. The second round slammed into and ignited the primer causing the chambered round’s casing to explode. It sent the bullet down range and a piece of the casing into the users stomach, causing death.

...

Enlever le chargeur ou les coups restant avant de controler un incident de tir ... si possible.

Ca c'est une mort vraiment conne. En général, quand tu n'arrives pas régler un souci d'enrayage par éjection de la munition incriminée, tu enlèves le chargeur dans le cas où c'est possible évidemment.

[Kiriyama]

De plus le tireur a dirigé l'arme contre lui pour faire ses manipulations. A éviter...

[Berkut]

En fait pas vraiment, de la façon dont c'est décrit, il aurait placé le fusil à la perpendiculaire, c'est à dire que c'est la culasse qui était contre son corps, pas le canon. Mais comme la chambre a explosé, il a pris toute la ferraille dans les tripes.

[g4lly]

En fait pas vraiment, de la façon dont c'est décrit, il aurait placé le fusil à la perpendiculaire, c'est à dire que c'est la culasse qui était contre son corps, pas le canon. Mais comme la chambre a explosé, il a pris toute la ferraille dans les tripes.

Pire ... il a juste pris la douille. En fait il a basculé l'arme sur le coté canon vers le bas et culasse vers le coté. En manipulant la culasse une seconde munition s'en engagé, sa main a ripé, et la culasse et revenu en avant ... la pointe de la seconde munition a percuté l'amorce de celle complétement engagé dans la chambre. La munition qui a servi de percuteur est retourné dans le puit de chargeur ... mais la douille de la premiere qui etait dans la chambre a du ripé contre la munition percuteuse et sauter au dessus de la culasse genre a 30° par rapport a l'axe du canon ... direct dans le bide. Visiblement la douille a fait un petite promenade en remontant a travers les boyau ...

"... The casing traveled eight to twelve inches upward into the chest cavity after penetration ..."

[Clairon]

la facilité et la rapidité de démontage du SCAR est assez impressionnante je trouve...

il y a vraiment peu de pièces...

Mais c'est encore très mauvais par rapport au Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ACR :

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaYOI1waCYI

Clairon

[Mauser]

Et alors une arme doit TOUJOURS être considérée comme chargée.

Le directeur technique de la FFT à l'époque fft tir n'existait pas

A bien réussi à se planter une 22 courte dans le ventre en tripotant son Walther GSP il ne sait pas comment mais il avait réussi à rentrer 6 cartouches dans un chargeur de 5...

Remarquez j'ai bien failli me faire plomber par ma propre Winchester en 22 à cette époque l'on pouvait encor tirer dans son jardin à la fin de séance de tir je manoeuvre plusieurs fois la culasse sans PERCUTER l'on m'avait expliqué qu'il fallait éviter avec de l'annulaire. L'arme posée le long d'un mur attendait son nettoyage et le frére d'un ami avec qui je faisait un carton la fait tomber trouant le fauteuil en face

Au démontage de l'arme pour comprendre le verdict était simple bris de l'extracteur . Si j'avais percuté à vide ...