Guest barbaros pacha Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Des insurgers Afghans ont fait exploser un char LeoII Canadien grace a un IED... Successful attack on Leopard tank raises concerns David Pugliese, CanWest News Service Published: Thursday, December 06, 2007 Afghan insurgents knocked out one of Canada's new Leopard tanks, sparking questions in the military about whether the attack was simply lucky or a signal that enemy forces intend to target the armored vehicles by increasing the amount of explosives used against them. The Leopard 2A6M, on loan from Germany and outfitted with additional armour and protection to deal with landmines, was damaged beyond repair in an explosion last month. Military investigators believe the blast was caused by a landmine but there have been suggestions that an improvised explosive device or IED was used. At the time of the incident the Canadian Forces only stated a crew member was injured in the explosion but did not give details about damage to the vehicle. Members of Canada's tank community now privately confirm the Leopard was a write-off. But officers are also praising the capabilities of the new tank, saying it did its job in protecting the crew. Only one crewmember, the driver, was injured. He suffered a broken hip. Some in the Canadian Forces believe the insurgents will try to focus more attacks on the Leopards because they are seen as highly effective in supporting coalition efforts. Insurgents in Iraq have also targeted U.S. tanks with roadside bombs packed with large amounts of explosives. Afghan insurgents have already tried "swarming tactics" on the Leopards, firing large volleys of rocket-propelled grenades at the vehicles. In one incident a Leopard was hit by four RPGs but emerged unscathed. Military officials have continually stated that any vehicle can be destroyed if enough explosives are used in a roadside bomb or landmine. In Afghanistan Canada has a mix of older Leopard tanks and the 2A6Ms obtained from Germany. Asked if insurgents are now increasing the amount of explosives in their bombs to deal with heavier armoured vehicles such as the Leopards, military spokesperson Lieut. Isabelle Riche responded that experience has shown the Taliban continually adjust tactics in an attempt to achieve greater result. She said in response, the Canadian Forces constantly assesses how these tactics can be countered to minimize risk to military personnel. "Although there are a variety of factors that influence the effectiveness of an IED the tank involved in this particular incident was sufficiently robust to protect the lives of our personnel," said Lieut. Riche. The military declined to get into details about the specifics of the damage because of operational security reasons. Some officers have suggested the insurgents already knew they had successfully knocked out the tank since their spies monitored the recovery of the vehicle. The German media has quoted a letter sent to German defence officials from a Canadian officer who was in the Leopard at the time of the blast. He thanked the Germans, noting that the tank "worked as it should." The officer identified the source of the blast as an IED but didn't get into other details. In addition, there are concerns in the military that there are not enough spare parts available for the Leopards. In Afghanistan the number of kilometres being driven by the tanks in a month is the equivalent of what is usually put on the vehicles in a year back in Canada. While that is acceptable since the tanks are being used in a war zone, some officers have complained that spare parts are not being made available. But Defence Department spokesperson Tanya Barnes said there are a large number of parts available for the Leopards. "DND and (Public Works) have established the necessary mechanisms to support the tanks in theatre," Barnes said in an e-mail. The Defence department has arranged a logistic support agreement with the German government and Public Works has raised a number of contracts for the supply of Leopard 2 spare parts, she added. More than 3,000 different spare parts have been ordered, according to Barnes. Under the terms of the loan arrangement on the 20 Leopard 2A6Ms, Canada will be required to return the tanks to Germany in the same condition they were received. The tanks are to be returned in September 2009. In April, the Harper government announced it would be purchasing up to 100 used Leopard 2s from the Netherlands as well as getting the loan of the 20 Leopard 2A6Ms from Germany. The cost of the purchase and long-term support contract is estimated to be about $1.3 billion. Ottawa Citizen http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/afghanistan/story.html?id=149620 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4lly Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Deja posté le mois dernier...Sinon le char a pas été détruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barbaros pacha Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Deja posté le mois dernier... Sinon le char a pas été détruit. Deja postez? j'avait pas vue la date... il me semble que c'est le premier LeoII detruit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4lly Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Deja postez? j'avait pas vue la date... il me semble que c'est le premier LeoII detruit... Puisqu'on te dit qu'il a pas été détruit et que le seul blessé a la "hanche" cassée ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyouz Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Puisqu'on te dit qu'il a pas été détruit et que le seul blessé a la "hanche" cassée ... was damaged beyond repair in an explosion On dit clairement dans le text qu'ils ont mis le paquet pour vraiment detruire. Qu'est ce qui te fait croire que le texte posté y a un mois est LA VRAIE version et pas celle ci ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkut Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Disons qu'il y a une sacrée différence entre un véhicule endommagé au point de ne pas être réparable ( Faut savoir pourquoi il ne l'est pas, c'est peut être parce que ça ne vaut pas le coup et qu'il va finir cannibalisé et la carcasse à la ferraille, pas forcément que le GMP a été mis en orbite et le châssis déchiré)Si je ne m'abuse les A6 ont un plancher renforcé ce qui explique peut être cela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianboy Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 c est costaud du leopard!! lol mais c quoi IED?????? une roquette antichar???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 IED : improvised explosive device en gros un engin explosif briquolé par des insurgents allant d'un obus de mortier "trafiqué" pour tuer une patrouille à pied à une tonne d'explosif enterrée pour satelliser un char lourd............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tactac Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 c est costaud du leopard!! Les ricains disaient pareil des Abrams avant que l'on en voit plusieurs en feu sur CNN sur les routes irakiennes ... C'est costaud mais tout a un point de rupture. O0 De toute façon, détruit ou endommagé, si l'équipage s'en sort (même avec bobos) c'est déja bien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvs Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Mais il me semblait qu'il y avait des détecteurs d'IED ? Il y a plusieurs façons de les faire exploser ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhilleus Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 tout ce que tu peux imaginerdu classique (mine à pression, à fil/antenne, magnétique)de l'improvisé (téléphone portable, boitier radio de garage, ou tout simplement fil electrique......)les detecteurs d'IED ? non je crois pas que cela existeles brouilleurs de boitiers de declenchement d'IED oui mais sinon comment detecter un stack de 3 mines antichars enterrées sous une piste ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvs Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 tout ce que tu peux imaginer du classique (mine à pression, à fil/antenne, magnétique) de l'improvisé (téléphone portable, boitier radio de garage, ou tout simplement fil electrique......) les detecteurs d'IED ? non je crois pas que cela existe les brouilleurs de boitiers de declenchement d'IED oui mais sinon comment detecter un stack de 3 mines antichars enterrées sous une piste ? Ok je pige mieux, ils devraient développer des technologies pour contrer ce type d'engins, c'est fréquent dans les guerres asymétriques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4lly Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Ok je pige mieux, ils devraient développer des technologies pour contrer ce type d'engins, c'est fréquent dans les guerres asymétriques. La meilleure c'est de ne pas utiliser les pistes ... ou de prendre des itinéraire moins prévisible. Le probleme c'est qu'ils ont tellement pas de prise sur le terrain que les tero/insurgé/taleb ont tout le temps d'en poser de guetter et de declencher... Pour la commande - par contact. - rupture. - pression. - fil électrique - onde radio/GSM etc comme les magnétoscope - commande optique infrarouge comme les magnétoscope bas de gamme. En gros aucune chance d'y echapper a coup sur, d'autant que l'engin explosif peu est en plastique... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotai Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 tout ce que tu peux imaginer du classique (mine à pression, à fil/antenne, magnétique) de l'improvisé (téléphone portable, boitier radio de garage, ou tout simplement fil electrique......) les detecteurs d'IED ? non je crois pas que cela existe les brouilleurs de boitiers de declenchement d'IED oui mais sinon comment detecter un stack de 3 mines antichars enterrées sous une piste ? Cela dépend des IED, les IED qui utilisent de l'éléctroniques comme un téléphone portable ou une radio sont repérable mais un IED avec un simple fil ne peut l'étre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4lly Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Cela dépend des IED, les IED qui utilisent de l'éléctroniques comme un téléphone portable ou une radio sont repérable mais un IED avec un simple fil ne peut l'étre. Il sont pas pas repérable plus que les autres, la commande est juste brouillable ou déclenchable par anticipation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kotai Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Il sont pas pas repérable plus que les autres, la commande est juste brouillable ou déclenchable par anticipation... Si tu le brouille, c'est que tu as repérer un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhilleus Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 non tu brouilles une zone ou tu passes en esperant brouiller un IED si il y'en as unen fait tu brouilles au hasard, pas parceque tu as reperé un IED......un IED ne se repere pas sauf en visuel si tu vois qqchose d'inhabituel (terre retournée recemment sur une piste ....etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 et quand tu repere tu passe ton chemin ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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