BAe et leurs U(C)AVs

[vendest]

Le neuron semble etre une avancée significative dans ce sens (sens de l'organisation, car du point de vue technique on ne peut juger tant qu'il n est pas présenté).

[Fonck]

Le neuron semble etre une avancée significative dans ce sens (sens de l'organisation, car du point de vue technique on ne peut juger tant qu'il n est pas présenté).

C'est vrai. Il y a quand meme des standards. Comme les formes choisie par example. Le Barracuda Allemand est rtes ressemblant des drone furtif dessines dans les annee 90. Donc a priory, technologiquement, les solutions apliquees au NEURON sont tres avancees cr similaires au deriner drones US.

Quand a l'avancee des travaux, ces images me rassurent.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9681/neuroninternals028sz.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2803/neuroninternals6sn.jpg

[Invité Rob]

Whilst you are right that Neuron is similar to US UCAVs you forget to mention that it will fly about 7 years after the first X45. Barracuda is doing roll tests now in 2006 whilst Neuron first flight is 2010-2011. So I wouldn't dismiss EADS work that easily.

[Fonck]

Sorry, the fact that you only undestand BIG figures and have absolutly no idea of the rest doesn't make EADS Barracuda as advanced as NEURON.

To tell you the truth, there is still the little matter of Barrakuda demonstrating any Combat capabilities so we will shortly SEE which is the real UCAV. One thing for sure it is NOT Corax nor Raven.

As for the stealth features as usual you don't know what you're about, Slow Fast was designed in 2003.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1296/slowfastmodel1lb.jpg

Since the 90 up to 2000, thing have moved on...

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5498/etapeads8wx.gif

EADS conceipt

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1732/foas4kc.gif

BAe FOAS conceipt.

As for your famous IR supressor demonstrator, it seems to me that SNECMA and Dassault have the equivalent flying on Rafale years ago, appart for the fact that this is a retractable device....

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4792/idr0105041p11eq.jpg

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/254/irsupress021by.jpg

If i were you i'd stick to train spoting.

[Invité Rob]

Sorry, the fact that you only undestand BIG figures and have absolutly no idea of the rest doesn't make EADS Barracuda as advanced as NEURON.

You don't understand simple sentences it seems. I did not say Barrakuda was as advanced as Neuron I said Barrakuda is existent NOW whilst Neuron is years from first flight [5 years to be exact].

[Fonck]

"Whilst you are right that Neuron is similar to US UCAVs you forget to mention that it will fly about 7 years after the first X45. Barracuda is doing roll tests now in 2006 whilst Neuron first flight is 2010-2011. So I wouldn't dismiss EADS work that easily." Twaist and spin. again.

[Invité Rob]

Of course it makes a difference, you're moking it but forget that it is there now and not in 5 years, till then EADS could have a further development flying or have Barrakuda fully developed and so on. Comparing a German UCAV from from early 2006 with a non existent UCAV from 2011 doesn't make sense.

[Fonck]

LOL Twist ANS soin and nothing to say about appart FAT uis beautifull. As i say stick to train spoting.

[Invité Rob]

Neuron is top in terms of stealth.

Where did I say Barracuda was better? I just said you're an idiot because you're comparing two things which have a huge time gap in between. Reality is that Barracuda design was probably going on in early 2001 and now in 2006 they have an aircraft whilst Neuron will fly in 2011.

You can try to argue as much as you can point is you didn't even notice the US equivalent didn't fly for more than a year or not at all due to the programme cancellation.

No. X45A has a weight of over 5000kg and thus is about in the same class as Neuron, X45C would have a weight of 16000kgs, far heavier than Neuron. Besides X45C is suppoesd to be an operational UCAV whilst Neuron should develop/demosntrate the tech needed for UCAVs.

Barracauda's equivalent flew since 2001. It can be largest it makes no difference in terms of technology.

So the ducs are huge UCAVs? I don't think so.

[Fonck]

"So the ducs are huge UCAVs? I don't think so."

Must be a painful process these days Rob.

Doesn't NEED to be Huge and as far as we all can see looking at the J_UCAS site you're totally WRONG too. Just flaming are we?

http://www.darpa.mil/j-ucas/

Barracuda design is old fashionned if you can comprehend this.

Neuron is top in terms of stealth. You can try to argue as much as you can point is you didn't even notice the US equivalent didn't fly for more than a year or not at all due to the programme cancellation. Barracauda's equivalent flew since 2001. It can be largest it makes no difference in terms of technology.

>>>>>

This is what you said and is quiet irrelevant considering they are visibly not in the same class at all.

Plus your stament is totally missleading as you are quoting a different version of X-45 to that which NEURON technology is similar to: X-45-A vs X-45-C

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/7893/x45a0ij.jpg

http://www.darpa.mil/j-ucas/

"Boeing built two X-45A air vehicles, and their associated mission control, support, and simulation systems, to demonstrate the technical feasibility of the J-UCAS concept. Design of an improved demonstrator system - X-45C air vehicle, mission control, support and simulation systems - is currently underway and will join the demonstration program in 2006. "

Barrakuda is far from being showing as much stealth fatures as AVE-Ds , Moyen duc end even less than NEURON.

AVEs bar the -D are similar to X-47-B and flew as early as 2001.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3853/moyenducagain9xo.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6789/x47b6jq.jpg

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/503/ave061zq.jpg

X-47-A was a triangular shape which AVE-D Petit Duc ressembles with V-shaped tail.

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/8858/x47a2mj.jpg

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/9412/logiduc9rn.png

So you are in effect just spining the whole thing as usual..

More to the point it makes NO difference weither Barrakuda flies before or after NEURON for these very reasons.

The point is, NEURON is the TDP the UK doesn't have and have been designed for two years now.

AND it will fly before any equivalent the UK and BAE will be able to put together on their own or in collaboration.

So at the end of the day, untill Barracuda demonstrates full combat capabilities, NEURON is still the only and most advanced European UCAV programme.

[Invité Rob]

More to the point it makes NO difference weither Barrakuda flies before or after NEURON for these very reasons.

It certainly does make a difference because EADS might well be improving on it or designing a new UCAV incorporating Barracudas experience. You're comparing a real aircraft (Barracuda) with a paperplane.

The point is, NEURON is the TDP the UK doesn't have and have been designed for two years now.

lol. Fact is Neuron is to a very large part Swedish. Can Dassault design a UCAV without them?

AND it will fly before any equivalent the UK and BAE will be able to put together on their own or in collaboration.

Let's wait and see.

So at the end of the day, untill Barracuda demonstrates full combat capabilities, NEURON is still the only and most advanced European UCAV programme.

Till 2011 there is a lot of time, so wait and see. Not every company shouts about what they're doing like Dassault. Be sure that in Manching and Warton work is on going.

[Fonck]

Rob Appart from FLAMING, being a total LIAR too what have you got???

"It certainly does make a difference because EADS might well be improving on it or designing a new UCAV incorporating Barracudas experience. You're comparing a real aircraft (Barracuda) with a paperplane. "

TWIST and SPIN. Barracuda design is NO more advanced than 2003 Slow/Fast i might be larger though as for the AVEs Moyen Duc (2001) is 500 kg...

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/372/p113217725sk.jpg

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7422/sagemdassault6zu.jpg

"lol. Fact is Neuron is to a very large part Swedish. Can Dassault design a UCAV without them?"

Dassault ARE design LEAD/Main architects and have 50% of the woirkshare which would have you climbing the wall had it been the case for BAe.

You can only make a total fool of yourself with this sort of staments.

Like you did last year INVENTING yourslef a UK UCAV TDP you still don't have YET.

Citation:

AND it will fly before any equivalent the UK and BAE will be able to put together on their own or in collaboration.

"Let's wait and see."

That's all you can do and try to imply Dassault and others didn't make any work on design since 2002 which is FALSE.

As for being late:

"Till 2011 there is a lot of time, so wait and see. Not every company shouts about what they're doing like Dassault. Be sure that in Manching and Warton work is on going. " Sure.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2803/neuroninternals6sn.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9681/neuroninternals028sz.jpg

Same here with a lot more design capabilities than BAe can ever dream of for Dassault only.... I won't mention the 405 million budget.

Think of it.

[Invité Rob]

TWIST and SPIN. Barracuda design is NO more advanced than 2003 Slow/Fast i might be larger though as for the AVEs Moyen Duc (2001) is 500 kg...

When did Slowfast fly? When did Moyen Duc fly? Dassault doesn't say on their website. Besides Barracuda is estimated (by Janes) to weigh in at 5500kgs.

Dassault ARE design LEAD/Main architects and have 50% of the woirkshare which would have you climbing the wall had it been the case for BAe.

No they haven't got 50%. France funds 45.7% of Neuron. This workshare [and funding share equals workshare in Neuron] is split between Dassault and Thales.

AND it will fly before any equivalent the UK and BAE will be able to put together on their own or in collaboration.

Let's wait and see.

That's all you can do and try to imply Dassault and others didn't make any work on design since 2002 which is FALSE.

So where is the proof?

Same here with a lot more design capabilities than BAe can ever dream of for Dassault only.... I won't mention the 405 million budget.

You mean the 185 Million Euros which will go to French industry of which Thales will get a significant part?

[Fonck]

TWIST and SPIN.

"When did Slowfast fly? When did Moyen Duc fly? Dassault doesn't say on their website. Besides Barracuda is estimated (by Janes) to weigh in at 5500kgs. "

WHY sould Dassault desobbey the French Intelligence services and disclose informatinos like these when it IS totally normal for BAe to hide their UAV researches for mor ethan thre years?

Citation:

Dassault ARE design LEAD/Main architects and have 50% of the woirkshare which would have you climbing the wall had it been the case for BAe.

"No they haven't got 50%. France funds 45.7% of Neuron. This workshare [and funding share equals workshare in Neuron] is split between Dassault and Thales. "

WORKSHARE IS 50% TWIST and spin is ALL you got.

Citation:

AND it will fly before any equivalent the UK and BAE will be able to put together on their own or in collaboration.

Let's wait and see. SURE THING.

Citation:

That's all you can do and try to imply Dassault and others didn't make any work on design since 2002 which is FALSE.

So where is the proof?

You can keep this SH!T in your eyes as much as you can, doesn't make other readers dumbs nor blind.

Here is how LATE the NEURON programme is:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2803/neuroninternals6sn.jpg

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9681/neuroninternals028sz.jpg

Citation:

Same here with a lot more design capabilities than BAe can ever dream of for Dassault only.... I won't mention the 405 million budget.

You mean the 185 Million Euros which will go to French industry of which Thales will get a significant part?

Yolu sure won't MENTION BAE design capabilities. There's little to be proud about therte...

AND; What IS the UK budget for the UK UCAV TDP you invented for a full year in WAAF???? £00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

[Invité Rob]

"When did Slowfast fly? When did Moyen Duc fly? Dassault doesn't say on their website. Besides Barracuda is estimated (by Janes) to weigh in at 5500kgs. "

WHY sould Dassault desobbey the French Intelligence services and disclose informatinos like these when it IS totally normal for BAe to hide their UAV researches for mor ethan thre years?

ROFL! This is so funny. You claim something ridiculous and when someone asks you for proof you say "it is secret". lol

Dassault ARE design LEAD/Main architects and have 50% of the woirkshare which would have you climbing the wall had it been the case for BAe.

No, because BAe are getting their own UCAV programme. Besdies Dassault does not have 50%. France does not have 50%. They have what they paid for 45.7% of which some will go to Thales.

AND it will fly before any equivalent the UK and BAE will be able to put together on their own or in collaboration.

Let's wait and see. SURE THING.

If you're still around in a few years I might well have a laugh at you over this.

So where is the proof?

You can keep this SH!T in your eyes as much as you can, doesn't make other readers dumbs nor blind.

lol, Is it "secret" thunder? Only for "thunders eyes" I suppose? lol

[Fonck]

Rob L appart from trying to TWIST and spin the whole subjet you're STILL not making any sense of it at all. Too bad you're not smart enough..

[Invité Rob]

lol the thing is you're claiming ridiculous things and if I ask for proof it is "secret". :lol:

[Fonck]

You had it posted. Date given first time ever for the prgoramme in the Senat doc; presence of two Ferench intellignence officials in the board, and existance of real laws on military censures in France. As for being asking for proofs you're welcome to prove to evryone here that the UK have UCAv. You dont. All you can do is twist youerself to knowts. As usual

[Invité Rob]

Il y a un autre UAV de BAe. Le "Soarer". Entre 2002 et 2005 BAe a developpe le Soarer, le Kestrel, le Corax, le Raven, le Herti-1A et le Herti-1D.

Unmanned vehicles - BAE Systems: Out of the black, into the blue

By Nick Cook JDW Aerospace Consultant

London

BAE Systems is due to showcase at the Farnborough Air Show some of its hitherto secret UAV and UCAV technology demonstrator work.

BAE formally unveiled its UAV/UCAV technology demonstration programme in February 2006 at a press briefing in London. The company revealed that it had been working on no fewer than six experimental unmanned platforms in secret since 2002: Soarer, Kestrel, Raven, Corax, Herti-D and Herti-A.

The catalyst for the decision to unveil BAE's UAV/UCAV work was the publication of the UK MoD's Defence Industrial Strategy (DIS) in December 2005. With its emphasis on the preservation of UK aerospace and defence science and technology (S&T) and research and development (R&D), coupled to a technology-demonstration programme (TDP), the DIS became a suitable framework for bringing BAE's UAV/UCAV work out into the open.

Indeed, before the launch of these activities, in the 2000-01 timeframe, BAE looked closely at the whole issue of investment and what, if anything, it could bring to the party technologically, beyond the kind of baseline achievements already set by US firms working in the UAV/UCAV arena. The key question, according to BAE's Director of Sales for Autonomous Airborne Systems Andy Wilson, revolved around the maturity of technological know-how inside BAE: was there enough expertise within the company to demonstrate that UAVs could operate safely and reliably in and out of controlled airspace and could it demonstrate a clear leap forward in capability, at a significant cost reduction over manned aircraft, to justify moving into the unmanned business?

The answer to both questions, the company concluded, was yes.

"We've done a lot of analysis of the marketplace and who's out there in the UAV field," Wilson says. "There's a lot of activity in the low-cost end of the business and at the other end you have (the Northrop Grumman) Global Hawk and the (General Atomics Aeronautical Systems) Predator UAVs, which are very expensive." BAE believes it can open up the centre-ground thanks to the new technologies that Herti in particular exploits.

310 of 3,075 words

http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw060710_2_n.shtml

[Fonck]

All of these are researche vehicles. Calling then UAVs is even an overstament already. These are designed to help research and develop technologies for futur programmes UAVs or UCAV depending on MoD decision. No UCAV TDP there.

[Invité Rob]

All of these are researche vehicles. Calling then UAVs is even an overstament already.

Unmanned+Air+Vehicle= UAV . Le petit duc etait un R&D UAV, mais c'est un UAV, n'est pas sur? Le Soarer, Kestrel, Herti-A, Herti-D, Corax, Raven sont des UAVs.

These are designed to help research and develop technologies for futur programmes UAVs or UCAV depending on MoD decision.

NON! C'est faux! Les UAV Soarer, Kestrel, Herti-A,Herti-D, Raven et Corax sont "company funded". 10 Hertis sont produit a la fin de 2006. Herti est pour marche d'export. Soarer et Kestrel sont des R&D UAVs. Soarer pour des "air flush data system" et Kestrel pour des autres choses. Raven est plus avancee que Kestrel et a "full autonomy." Corax peut-etre est un prototype pour projet "Dabinett."

BAE hopes to offer a low-cost, autonomous UAV to customers around the end of this year, said Andy Wilson, the sales and marketing director of a new BAE business unit known as Autonomous Systems & Future Capability (Air).

Source: http://www.c4isrjournal.com/story.php?F=1547193

et

BAE Systems has launched a major expansion of its unmanned air vehicle activities, with the formation of a new Autonomous Systems and Future Capability (Air) organisation and approval to initiate a major manufacturing drive that will see 10 of its Herti-1A demonstrators flying by the end of 2006.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/02/21/Navigation/196/204870/BAE+Systems+boosts+UAV+programme+with+manufacturing.html

No UCAV TDP there.

Il est annonce en le DIS en Decembre 2005. Je pense qu'il y a un announcement sur un UCAV TDP britannique peut-etre pendant Farnborough 2006.

[Fonck]

" Je pense qu'il y a un announcement sur un UCAV TDP britannique peut-etre pendant Farnborough 2006." Ca fait TROIS ans que tu penses ca, que tu appeles tout ce qui vole an UCAV et que Mike Turner demande une TDP au UK MoD. On verra bien.

[pearybis]

C'est un topic specialement fait pour ROB et pour FONCK bon je :arrow:

[Fonck]

Tous les topics ou les titres donnent le nom d'UCAV a tout ce qu'on fait BAe en ce moment. En gros il n'y a pas encore un UCAV volant en Europe et le seul progarmme en cours est le nEUROn. Le reste c'est du T-UAV ou UAV.

[Invité Rob]

a fait TROIS ans que tu penses ca, que tu appeles tout ce qui vole an UCAV et que Mike Turner demande une TDP au UK MoD. On verra bien.

Total nonsense. Why should I, in 2003, have said that they'd announce a UCAV TDP at Farnborough 2006. Prove your statement. Besides the DIS has announced a UCAV programme.