BAe et leurs U(C)AVs

[Invité Rob]

I'm not saying it's weapons capable. But the specialized press is saying it's a UCAV [Flight International, AW&ST, Janes]. So I personally think it has a lot of features of a stealth UCAV but perhaps not weapons release. BAe says it is representative of a sixth generation aircraft. 8) Anyhow BAe has at least six U©AV demonstrators [that is of different designs] flying, I think one can say they are leading Europe at the moment. Don't you think?

[Fonck]

So if it is NOT combat capable... IT IS NOT an UCAV but an UAV, sowhy don't you ever bother to LEARN. Does it hurt so much when you think???? "Anyhow BAe has at least six U©AV demonstrators [that is of different designs] flying, I think one can say they are leading Europe at the moment. Don't you think?" No they don'y they are behing is stealth design as well as flight control. YOU see whn MoD says they need to develp stealth technology that both SAAB and Dassautl masetreed around 2002 this means 4 years behind...

[Invité Rob]

You don't understand it's not me saying it's a UCAV it's Flight International, FlugRevue, AW&ST, Janes saying it's a UCAV. I'm just saying it's got a lot common with a UCAV [i don't know if it has weapons capability, though I doubt it].

[Invité Rob]

No they don'y they are behing is stealth design as well as flight control.

LOL, so when was Dassault's first UAV with full autonomy? And regarding stealth it has produced more stealth UAVs than Dassault.

[Fonck]

Mare WE know what UCAV means. Unhmaned Combat Vehicle. If the combat bit is not there you can call Jean-Pasul the pope himself it won't make any difference now get yourtself a carot diet pronto you'r loosing it. "LOL, so when was Dassault's first UAV with full autonomy? And regarding stealth it has produced more stealth UAVs than Dassault." they are working at something else no need for full authonomie here control from a Rafale back seat will suffice but it makes YOUR problem more obvious. Jealousy is a bitch ain't shee???

[Invité Rob]

So just for the record you're disagreeing with the for you holy Janes? :D

BAe is more advanced they have flown 7 different UAV designs over the last few years, many more than Dassault. And the BAe UAVs were more advanced too.

they are working at something else no need for full authonomie here control from a Rafale back seat will suffice but it makes YOUR problem more obvious. Jealousy is a bitch ain't shee???

lol, so it's remote controlled? Wow I never thought a UAV was going to be remote controlled!!! If a UAV company doesn't have the full autonomy skill it's a useless UAV company and has to team with others. [saab for example]

Or why is Neuron getting full autonomy from Saab if Dassault has something much better? :rolleyes:

[Fonck]

Janes compiled books are actually quiet different from articles in case you didn't know (and you didn't actually as you probabilly NEVER saw a book did you?) Stealth needs proper design both in shape and structure, Corax or Raven didn'y make the grade, the next TDP is designed to do just that. But since you can't stand the idea of Dassault being main architect and lead design on the first European UCAV programme you're ready to invent/distort/interpret at will to make it look as it actually happen. Too bad i'm more informed than you are. As Mod and BAE says themself the UK UCAV TDP is designed to give BAe the design skills for designing a stealth UCAV, as for now they simply can't do it without it. But i suppose you won't stop pretending, tell me can you win a marathon but JUST doing your usual pub runs?

[Invité Rob]

lol thunder/Fonk/Gegene keep dreaming on in your dream world. The Facts are that BAe is ahead of Dassault, BAe has full autonomy [something Dassault does not have], BAe has several stealth designs, BAe has flown larger UAVs to date, they'll soon enter the tactical UAV market [before dassault does afaik]. Oh and with Neuron running late already I wouldn't bet too much on it being the first UCAV in Europe. Let the race begin! 8)

Note that the UAV on the Dassault website actually has a fin, well surely that is not stealth.

[Fonck]

no my friend STEALTH is STILL a SKILL BAe and MOD agree they need to ACQUIER through the UK's UCAV TDP. Still to be launced and it is NOW very clear what your problem IS. Let's see: Which company actually managed to down a US F-22 by designing some hardware for it? BAe. Which one can't get Nimropd wings properly together BAe Which one Have designed the Harrier II rear fuselage cracking mid- life BAe Which one have done the same for the Tornado F-3 Central pluig same problems? BAe Ex[pertise by Rob L. You're really believe everyone this side of the pound is as drunk-borned as you guys don't you? Try this on someone else my friend.

[TMor]

and you didn't actually as you probabilly NEVER saw a book did you?

This would look better that way :

and you didn't actually as you probabilly NEVER saw a book did you? :lol: ;)

C'est pour préserver l'ambiance Fonck. Comme l'a fait remarqué TDidier, cette ambiance tranquille commence à pourir à force de voir des gens se faire mordre. Fait ça pour tes compatriotes, au moins. ;) (remarque bien que je te dis ça amicalement). Ne t'en prends pas aux gens. A ce qu'ils disent si tu veux, mais pas aux gens directement. :rolleyes:

[Kiriyama]

Pourquoi est ce qu'il y'en a qui ne causent qu'anglais? :?:

[Fonck]

Mo il me prend la tete a raconter le contraire de ce que les haut responsable de British Aerospace disent. Remarque c'est la preuve qu'il en a bein besoin si cetait vrai il n'aurait pas besoin de le rabacher ca se saurrait. Jusqu'a present il s'en tennait au WAAF mais la ca ressemble de plus en plus a de la provo... Tu y crois toi a une aile droite stealth? Meme les Ricains ont pas ose... Enfin de toute facon je crois que les Francais sont pas aussi cons qu'il ne le pense...

[Invité Rob]

You're changing the subject again. I consider it funny that you're saying Dassault is so much better, whilst some of their designs [Petit Duc] actually have FINS, which is terrible for the RCS. Everyone except you and a few other trolls says Raven is stealth [e.g. FI, AW&ST etc...).

[Fonck]

No i'm not i'm replying to an intelligent being, trying this with you is like feeding pigs with Russian Caviar, unapreciated anyway. I let you veting your pants over BAe superiority over Dassault . Poor boy. Keep at it you're a good laugh. Bye. http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8016/baeexpertise011sv.jpg http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6539/200506janesf35design7fl.jpg http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/3133/ukshareless1ss.jpg des liens interessant pour ceux qui ont envie de s'instruire.

[Invité Rob]

The thing is you have no counter arguments. I say they have built seven UAV designs etc.... [for example you could prove that Dassault has more than 7 UAV designs flying] and you just keep repeating "No stealth, No stealth, No stealth" or "BAe fucked this up and fucked that up". From the lack of you wanting to take up the comparison between BAe/Dassault I see that you think you'll lose it, which well I think too. ;) But hey it must hurt to realize [and I think you have realized it] that BAe, the company you hate so much, is now No 1 in Europe for UAVs.

[TMor]

Pourquoi est ce qu'il y'en a qui ne causent qu'anglais? :?:

Oh, tu sais, cette conversation ne fait que tenter de prouver des trucs. Ils se renvoient la balle depuis des lustres. :lol:

D'après toi, le drône Corax : il est furtif ou pas ? Rob dit que oui, Fonck dit que non (comme les constructeurs ne l'ont pas dit eux-même). :lol:

Tu loupes pas grand chose. A la limite, faudra faire une synthèse quand ils auront fini :lol:

[TMor]

Mo il me prend la tete a raconter le contraire de ce que les haut responsable de British Aerospace disent. Remarque c'est la preuve qu'il en a bein besoin si cetait vrai il n'aurait pas besoin de le rabacher ca se saurrait. Jusqu'a present il s'en tennait au WAAF mais la ca ressemble de plus en plus a de la provo...

Tu y crois toi a une aile droite stealth? Meme les Ricains ont pas ose...

Enfin de toute facon je crois que les Francais sont pas aussi cons qu'il ne le pense...

Je te répondrais demain. ;)

[Invité Rob]

Ah I got it. :idea: The library has closed. ;) Anyway what do other people here think? Who's the most advanced in Europe in UAVs? Saab, BAe, EADS, Dassault? This is what I think: 1) BAe - they've done a lot of work over the years now: Raven, Corax, Kestrel, Herti 1A, Herti 1D, Eclipse, Flaviir 2) Dassault - The Ducs, though no autonomous systems afaik 2) The second place is shared between Dassault and Saab (Sharc, Filur) 3) EADS Germany (Barracuda) 4) Alenia (Sky-X)

[Stratege]

Well Rob you see only part of emerged iceberg.France is working on stealth for more than 3 decades now and even before F117 was launched and with big expenses after we noticed the full developement of stealth in US.Our nuclear warheds use stealth for decades for exemple. Contrary to UK we seek full technology autonomy and do not make a lot of advertising on it. You do not need a automated demonstrator to test stealth and not a stealth one to test flight automation: it can be done in separate devices. And I know what I'm speaking about.

[Invité Rob]

D'après toi, le drône Corax : il est furtif ou pas ? Rob dit que oui, Fonck dit que non (comme les constructeurs ne l'ont pas dit eux-même). Laughing

Tu loupes pas grand chose. A la limite, faudra faire une synthèse quand ils auront fini

No. I'm talking of Raven. Corax does not have as much stealth as Raven because Corax is designed for an other mission. [also note that BAe hasn't said a lot about any of these UAVs yet and they didn't say: "Corax is not stealth" they just didn't mention the word stealth in the one sentence they said about Corax).

[Invité Rob]

Well Rob you see only part of emerged iceberg.France is working on stealth for more than 3 decades now and even before F117 was launched and with big expenses after we noticed the full developement of stealth in US.Our nuclear warheds use stealth for decades for exemple.

Contrary to UK we seek full technology autonomy and do not make a lot of advertising on it.

You do not need a automated demonstrator to test stealth and not a stealth one to test flight automation: it can be done in separate devices.

And I know what I'm speaking about.

Well I agree, but given the fact that France has made it's UAV efforts quite public in the last years (Petit Duc, Neuron) I doubt if they have a lot in the black. Having black projects is usually a perfidious Albion thing. ;)

I should rephrase my comparison above (the list of compnaies): Who do you think, based on the available information is the leading company for UAVs in Europe?

Also I agree you don't have to have stealth and autonomy in the same UAV but seeing that Saab is responsible for autonomy on Neuron I wonder if Dassault is doing anything in this regard. :?:

[TMor]

No. I'm talking of Raven. Corax does not have as much stealth as Raven because Corax is designed for an other mission. [also note that BAe hasn't said a lot about any of these UAVs yet and they didn't say: "Corax is not stealth" they just didn't mention the word stealth in the one sentence they said about Corax).

Ok, sorry, I don't like UAV enough to make the difference !! :lol: ;)

Fr :

-- TMor je ne parlais pas du Corax mais du Raven.......

--ok, désolé, j'aime pas assez les drônes pour faire la différence !!

[Invité Rob]

No Problem. Pas de probleme. ;)

[Stratege]

Having black projects is usually a perfidious Albion thing.

Not really. :D

There is projects which have no names and no visible funding...

Contrary to Anglo saxon in France parlement has no direct control on defense spending (and almost no debate): only on global spending but not on details and even exact data.

[Fonck]

Rob

"No. I'm talking of Raven. Corax does not have as much stealth as Raven because Corax is designed for an other mission. [also note that BAe hasn't said a lot about any of these UAVs yet and they didn't say: "Corax is not stealth" they just didn't mention the word stealth in the one sentence they said about Corax). "

No i'm talking about YOU saying what Mod Doesn't SAY for obvious reasons ; you know zero on aerospacial matters and can't even comprehend what stealth mean:

Shape material and AND structural you dig?

What you show us my friend have flown as early as 2002 in France the second DUC was ALSOan instable platform and this is obviously exactly WHAT i was saying.

The UK is YEARS late in stealth UAV/UCAVs developement.

Note that for the technical reasons i have given above neither MoD nor AE are claiming ANY of these to be stealth.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4981/moyenduc5xg.jpg

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>>>>> >>>>>Where the money did GO:

"Some 100 companies have been working on FOAS feasability by mid-1999. A third-phase study was launched that year; comceipt phase was then due to end in Marsh 2001 with 'initial' gate 1 decision to proceed to assesment phase.

Force mix between different systems (if more than one solution chosen, as appeared likely in 1999) will be decided for selection of a solution in about 2010.

By late 1999, French companies were working on joint studies with UK, while Germany was showing interest in joining.

IOC, originally due in 2015, and since moved to 2020 following the decision not to include Harrier GR. Mk7 replacement in FOAS, If only a crewed aircraft is selected. The RAF requierement would be for approximatimately 200."

>>>>>

>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>WHAT BAE SAID about a TDP:

1994

"BAe began trying to persuade the UK MoD of the need for a technology demonstration program (TDP) to -- in the words of one official at the time -- "safeguard [bAe] design expertise in the run-up to decisions". The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, was to be on airframe design "because of the need to master the stealth issue"."

2004

"Continental Europe is getting its act together on UAVs and UCAVs,” Turner said. "We are working with the Defence Procurement Agency on programs [of our own]; it’s really important as a nation we get onboard."

Last year at Farborough Airshow, BAe were still trying to get the procurement agency onboard their own programmes, after TEN years of trying HARD. They're still waiting, but we didn't have to wait too long for MoD to step on the US J-UCAV programme.

>>>>> "safeguard [bAe] design expertise in the run-up to decisions".>>>>> "safeguard [bAe] design expertise in the run-up to decisions".>>>>> "safeguard [bAe] design expertise in the run-up to decisions".>>>>> "safeguard [bAe] design expertise in the run-up to decisions".>>>>> "safeguard [bAe] design expertise in the run-up to decisions"...

Looks like even the nEURON partners agreed with this statment from BAe.

>>>>>

2004

"Continental Europe is getting its act together on UAVs and UCAVs,” Turner said. "We are working with the Defence Procurement Agency on programs [of our own]; it’s really important as a nation we get onboard."

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

"The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

Since WHEN did they say they didn't NEED a flying aircraft NOD?

Since when did they say they didn't need to master the stealth issue"???

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994 1994

>>>>>

(Le Bourget, June 16, 2003) - Following the French authorities decision about future combat drones, Mr. Charles Edelstenne, Chairman and CEO of Dassault Aviation, said: ' We have acknowledged with satisfaction the French authorities decision to designate Dassault Aviation as prime contractor of a UCAV demonstrator prototype. The know-how gained by our company during the last 50 years allow us to fulfill this central role in this new field of world aerospace. '

UCAVs (Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles) are designed to perform combat missions over hostile zones, a role in which automatic systems allow to reduce aircrew casualty risks. Thanks to its unique experience in the development and production of combat aircraft, Dassault Aviation masters all advanced technologies related to this field and considers UCAVs as complementary systems to aircraft of the Rafale class and generation.

The Chairmand CEO of Dassault Aviation also underlined that ' within the frame of this programme, Dassault Aviation will associate all its French and European partners, thereby contributing with them to the future building of defence aerospace in Europe '.

>>>>>

This (below) is what BAe is tasked with on the F-35 programme. NOT airframe/stealth/design atg all...

The company is responsible for the F-35 JSF’s Electronic Warfare (EW) systems suite and provides advanced, affordable, low observable apertures and countermeasure systems. It also supplies the vehicle management computer, the communication, navigation and identification (CNI) modules, active stick and throttle and the EOTS laser subsystem.

The system design & development (SDD) phase is estimated to be worth $2.4 billion to BAE Systems in the UK and a further $750 million to BAE Systems North America. Production could be worth $16.5 billion to BAE Systems UK, and a further $4.5 billion in the U.S. These figures do not include export sales, support or other opportunities such as upgrade programs.

Did any "projects" go through all these steps so far in the UK? Answer: NO.

Air density, airspeed, Mach, dynamic pressure, structural loads.

Did BAe design any part of F-35 according to these design criterias (Jane's aerospace industry dictionary)? NO.

Requiers: Wing tunnel testing and validation by test-flight full scale (Or scaled-downed like the actual flying European UCAV are) real article.

"together these cover every combination of air density, airspeed, Mach, dynamic pressure, structural loads (including free or accelerated take-off and normal, or arrested landing) and systems demands aircraft can encounter."

>>>>>

"MoD officials are clearly indicating the prefered TWO (2) ways, the collaboration with the US or the collaboration with the EUs. So no UK only venture there simply because the UK with a <> £18 billion budget hole cannot afford it, also, the researches in question were done over two years ago for the EUs and twice this long at least for the US.. If this is not enough....

"With UK calls for increased access to sensitive technology on the JSF having been repeatedly knocked back by the USA, BAE Systems chief executive Mike Turner says the MoD has within the last six months begun to review its attitude to bilateral co-operation on future activities in areas such as unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) development.

The government could decide against US or national programmes, so there could be potential for European collaboration,” says Turner. “There is a huge lobby now within the MoD to go more European [and] I think we would be welcomed.”

>>>>>

Other Aerospace Developments

In December 2004 Aviation Week & Space Technology it was revealed that the UK had been developing stealth technologies for manned and unmanned aircraft, this work primarily focused on visual and IR signatures. It is known that the project was/is jointly funded by both BAE Systems and the MoD for at least £9m/ $17m/ €13m (24).

Aircraft Research Association Ltd has also been known to be involved in developing UCAV configurations (25).

>>>>>

More dramatically, BAE also recently conducted its first fully autonomous mission using a jet-powered UCAV-type demonstrator dubbed Corax (pictured below). Flown for the first time during 2004, the high-speed design uses a shrouded, above-fuselage engine and has an extended wing with moving control surfaces. BAE refers to the experimental design as “a highly survivable, strategic UAV system” employing “flexible and modular advanced flight-control systems."

CRAIG HOYLE/LONDON Flight International

>>>>>

http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2004/07/20/184476/BAE+pushes+UK+on+UCAV+initiative.html

DATE:20/07/04

SOURCE:Flight International

BAE pushes UK on UCAV initiative

Manufacturer stresses importance of launching national programme before making decision on collaboration

BAE Systems is pushing the UK government to launch a national unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) programme ahead of any decision on whether to sign up to projects already under way in Europe and the USA.

The USA and the French-led Neuron group are forging ahead with UCAV work, but the UK Ministry of Defence is yet to reach a decision on initial gate approval for the Future Offensive Air System (FOAS) programme, which will almost certainly include a UCAV component (Flight International, 6-12 April).

"We have to see [the UCAV discussions] come to fruition in the next few months," says BAE chief executive Mike Turner. Regarding potential collaboration on UCAVs with European or US partners, he says: "Before you can do that you need a programme in the UK. It's very important that we have such a programme."

The MoD's Defence Procurement Agency says an initial gate decision on FOAS is still expected this year. It adds: "We are still at quite an early stage. We are looking at all the options and no decisions have been taken." Initial gate approval has been repeatedly delayed, with the most recent target date having passed last May.

Intended to replace the Royal Air Force's Panavia Tornado GR4 strike aircraft from around 2018, FOAS will provide the capability to conduct long-range attacks against time-critical targets and is likely to comprise manned and unmanned combat aircraft, cruise missiles and air-launched unmanned air vehicles.

The MoD has requested information on the USA's Joint Unmanned Combat Air System (J-UCAS) programme from the US Department of Defense, and the possibility of a Joint Strike Fighter-style international collaborative programme has been discussed. The J-UCAS prime contractors are Boeing, developing the X-45C UCAV, and Northrop Grumman with the X-47B. The USAir Force plans to use UCAVs for suppression of enemy air defences, while the US Navy envisages an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance role.

Europe's Neuron UCAV demonstrator project has Dassault Aviation as its prime contractor. The system is seen as a potential replacement for current-generation fighters including the Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab/BAE Systems Gripen. Greece, Spain and Sweden have also joined the project.

ANDREW DOYLE / LONDON

>>>>>

"We have to see [the UCAV discussions] come to fruition in the next few months," says BAE chief executive Mike Turner. Regarding potential collaboration on UCAVs with European or US partners, he says: "Before you can do that you need a programme in the UK. It's very important that we have such a programme."

>>>>>

a) My point were: There was NO such thing but: Studies and researches as was done by SAAB and Dassault before they commited to the nEURON programme. NO Stealth/UCAV TDP programmes.

"The document flushes out previously classified unmanned combat air vehicle (UCAV) research, committing the ministry to launch a full-scale technology demonstrator next year. The UCAV effort is a key element of the approach to air systems enshrined in the policy paper (see www.mod.uk). "

>>>>>

-1994 BAe press release:

"BAe began trying to persuade the UK MoD of the need for a technology demonstration program (TDP) to -- in the words of one official at the time -- "safeguard [bAe] design expertise in the run-up to decisions". The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, was to be on airframe design "because of the need to master the stealth issue"."

This is BAe own statments not their little fantasist interpretation of reality. Source: Jane's.

>>>>>

2004 BAe press release:

"Continental Europe is getting its act together on UAVs and UCAVs,” Turner said. "We are working with the Defence Procurement Agency on programs [of our own]; it’s really important as a nation we get onboard."

Source: Jane's.

>>>>>

2005 BAe press release:

"While the report maintains the Defense Ministry has "no funded UCAV program," the ministry is supporting classified UCAV-related research, in part through low-observable (LO) platform work. It recently recast its future offensive strike needs within the Strategic UAV Experiment program."

Source: Jane's.

>>>>>

DATE:21/06/05

SOURCE:Flight International

UK rethinks Tornado replacemen

“The government could decide against US or national programmes, so there could be potential for European collaboration,” says Turner. “There is a huge lobby now within the MoD to go more European [and] I think we would be welcomed.”

"A UCAV technology demonstrator was also a key recommendation of the government and industry Aerospace Innovation Growth Team. Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area, it will also provide potential leverage on the U.S. The U.K. is participating in the U.S. Joint Unmanned Combat Air System.

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

This clearly indicate they don't have them right NOW:

(U.K. capabilities in this area," or the UCAV TDP).

>>>>>

AIR SECTOR

BAE Systems and the MoD intend to work together to explore how a long-term partnership arrangement for the through-life availability of a significant proportion of the fixed-wing fleet might be delivered.

It was acknowledged that Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles (UCAVs) and Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs) will play a significant role in the future force mix and BAE Systems will work to secure an agreement in January with the UK MoD. The MoD intends to invest in a new technology demonstration programme in this key area and the company already has significant skills and experience in this domain. It successfully achieved the first fully autonomous mission of an unmanned aircraft in UK airspace, on 18 August 2005.

http://www.baesystems.com/dis/index.htm

BAe Official version. Where does it says stelth?

As fo the way themself and MoD classified it it IS: Stealthy. Not stealth.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

French aerospace moves up into second place

France confirmed its position as the world's second-largest manufacturer of aerospace equipment behind the US in 2004 by achieving record sales of EUR28.4 billion ($36.3 billion), despite a dip in revenue from military goods.

[Jane's Defence Weekly - first posted to http://jdw.janes.com – 8 April 2005]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now here we can SEE clearly your complexion glowing RED hot.

Dassault are Number ONE in the Eus SAAB Number TWO BAe ... Well a little bit behind.

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

question Rob L: WAS this TDP lauched during the past two month???

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".