BAe et leurs U(C)AVs

[Invité Rob]

You're a miserable person, I really pity you.

[Fonck]

STFU You're a miserable Mythomaniac and you're the one i great need of pitty, and attention at the rate you're writing excagerated stuff about your poor crumbling aerospacial industry. France Aerospacial Industry Number TWO in the World. No NEED for lies there, the truth will do just fine. >>>>> 2005 BAe press release: "While the report maintains the Defense Ministry has "no funded UCAV program," the ministry is supporting classified UCAV-related research, in part through low-observable (LO) platform work. It recently recast its future offensive strike needs within the Strategic UAV Experiment program." Source: Jane's. >>>>> DATE:21/06/05 SOURCE:Flight International UK rethinks Tornado replacemen “The government could decide against US or national programmes, so there could be potential for European collaboration,” says Turner. “There is a huge lobby now within the MoD to go more European [and] I think we would be welcomed.” "A UCAV technology demonstrator was also a key recommendation of the government and industry Aerospace Innovation Growth Team. Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area, it will also provide potential leverage on the U.S. The U.K. is participating in the U.S. Joint Unmanned Combat Air System. "Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area," "Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area," "Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area," This clearly indicate they don't have them right NOW: (U.K. capabilities in this area," or the UCAV TDP). The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue". "Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area," The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue". "Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area," The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue". "Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area," The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue". Whant MORE? They ask for the same TDP SINCE and STILL don't get it, the very one you kept INVENTING last year remember? It IS STILL NOT lauinched YET so they still NEED it to: Developr the UK capabilities in this area. What? Stealth...

[Invité Rob]

This is really funny............ :lol:

[lefoudeladefense]

This is really funny............ :lol:

rob could you developp your thoughts .... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[cvs]

Excellent, nous avons un forum international. :D

[Fonck]

Tu parles. Au fait la photo c'est toi ou ta soeur? J'suis interesse.

[Invité ZedroS]

Juste comme ça, Fonck, n'importe quel pays peut il déclarer maitriser le "stealth" ? Ou peuvent ils tous plutot dire qu'ils font des études dans ce sens, même pour les américains (qui même sur le F22 ont encore fait des études dans ce sens). Bref, que les anglais/BAe disent qu'il faut qu'ils fassent encore des études dans ce domaine ne veut pas dire pour autant : - qu'ils n'y connaissent rien - qu'ils n'y connaissent pas plus que Dassault Je me trompe quelque part là ?

[Fonck]

"Bref, que les anglais/BAe disent qu'il faut qu'ils fassent encore des études dans ce domaine ne veut pas dire pour autant : - qu'ils n'y connaissent rien" = Faux - qu'ils n'y connaissent pas plus que Dassault = Pas plus = MOINS. C'est l'equivalent en plus gros des Ducs pas plus que ca. "Je me trompe quelque part là ?" c'est pas la question. Le pere Rob pretend en savoir plus que le PDG de BAe et son propre ministere de la defense... Cest declarations sont la pour remetre les pendules a l'heure. Quand a la raison pour laquelle c'est hilarant, ils ont depense plus de tunes dans les surcout duent au fautes technique des creations de BAe et dans F-35 (plus du double) que dans leur recherches sur la technologie stealth. Quand au nombre c'est evident qu'ils en ont bein besoin, ca fait des anness qu'ils ne font plus rien par eux meme. SAAB et Dassault se sont contentes de dessiner et produire leur propres avions depuis la fin de la guerre. Pas le cas de BAe qui ont acumule les collaborations et FCUK-UPs. Au sujet du titre d'Air et cosmos. Ils ne qualifieraient certainement pas Raven de UCAV quand a la proportion de technologie stealth dedans c'est ecrit dans les declarations que je continue de poster. Vous ne savez pas tout... Les UK sont charette et BAe en particulier. Mais Rob est Mythomaniaque de naissance il n'y peu rien sinon me les briser.

[cvs]

Tu parles. Au fait la photo c'est toi ou ta soeur? J'suis interesse.

Non c'est pas moi. Je suis un mec.

C'est une jolie militaire de tsahal qu'un pote à moi a photographié à Jerusalem lors de son pélérinage en terre sainte pour les fêtes de fin d'année.

Décidément elle a du succès, galil et shuggart sont aussi sur les rangs.

[Fonck]

j'irais pas jusqu'en Israel pour la draguer, j'ai deja assez de cicatrices comme ca. Mais elle est plutot sympa a regarder. Merci.

[glitter]

"While the report maintains the Defense Ministry has "no funded UCAV program," the ministry is supporting classified UCAV-related research, in part through low-observable (LO) platform work. It recently recast its future offensive strike needs within the Strategic UAV Experiment program."

Que doit -on comprendre de cet article ?

PAs très clair mais pour moi, il n'y a pas de programe UCAV à but direct pour la RAF ("no funded UCAV program") alors que l'on dit bien que des projets de recherches sont en cours.

"Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area,"

This clearly indicate they don't have them right NOW:

No, they have some capibilities but want more. IT's what I understand. Otherwise

"Not only will it serve to gain capabilties" would have been use.

The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue".

Whant MORE? They ask for the same TDP SINCE and STILL don't get it, the very one you kept INVENTING last year remember? It IS STILL NOT lauinched YET so they still NEED it to: Developr the UK capabilities in this area. What? Stealth...

I won't say anything about the visual pollution of yours, but what ?

Neither France nor UK are known master of stealth, what's the issue with trying to be one ?

[Invité Rob]

rob could you developp your thoughts ....

The thing is thunder is claiming Dassault is in the lead in stealth and UAVs and everything else for that matter but he is inable to show proof that Dassault has done any projects equivalent to Replica, Nightjar, Raven, Corax, Herti, Kestrel except two small Duc demonstrators. Despite this he claims that Dassault is better, though he has no proof. The only argument he has is that in 1994 BAe said they want a stealth demonstrator [note that the Replica stealth demonstrator started in 1994!] and in 2005 the MoD said that a British UCAV demonstrator will be launched in 2006 to develop UK capabiliites in that area [note they mean UCAV capability not stealth capability as wrongly understood by thunder]. The funny thing is he denies that Saab not only does the autonomy for Neuron but also has a huge design share in Neuron.

The most annoying thing is that BAe has to prove that it had stealth demonstrators etc... whilst for Dassault thunder is willing to assume that they have done all of this though he doesn't have proof!!!

In the end BAe in the last 10 or so years had the following Projects regarding stealth and UAV development [AFAIK]:

Replica (testbody built from 1994-1999 for 30 Million Euros), Nightjar I+II (Project to design UAV and UCAV airframe parts and test them on BAe's RCS range from late 90s-2006), Kestrel (flown in 2001), 2 Ravens (flown in 2003&2004), Corax (flown in 2005), 4 Hertis (flown in 2005 with 6 more to be built in 2006), Flaviir (research project for an affordable UAV with new technologie from 2005-2009), Chameleon (visual stealth project from late 90s), SUAVE

Dassault had:

AVE-C and AVE-D

So my suggestion is that thunder or someone else says what Dassault did in that timeframe regarding UAVs and stealth, IF they are in the lead where are the projects?

[Fonck]

"Que doit -on comprendre de cet article ? PAs très clair mais pour moi, il n'y a pas de programe UCAV à but direct pour la RAF ("no funded UCAV program") alors que l'on dit bien que des projets de recherches sont en cours. " Pas encore. c'est le but de la TDP Technology Demonstator Programme. Leur permetre d'acquerir les capacitees de dessin et conception qu'ils ont etudiees avec les 6 UAV qu'ils viennent de devoiler. Citation: "Not only will it serve to develop U.K. capabilities in this area," This clearly indicate they don't have them right NOW: "No, they have some capibilities but want more. IT's what I understand. Otherwise "Not only will it serve to gain capabilties" would have been use. " Quasiment: Avant de pouvoir determiner ca: Tu devrais savoir que Turner a demande a corps et a cri depuis 1994 l'aide du MoD pour developer ces capabilitees. Ces UAV fait maison ne sont pas plus avances technologiquement que les Duc (petit). De plus ils sont tous destines a un domaine technologique different. Un TDP c'est destine a developer ces capacitees ni plus ni moins et ce dans l'enssemble du domaine technologique d'un UAV. NEURON est destine a developer les capaciteed de combat pas la technologie Stealth ou UAV que SAAB et Dasault maitrisent deja. Citation: The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue". Whant MORE? They ask for the same TDP SINCE and STILL don't get it, the very one you kept INVENTING last year remember? It IS STILL NOT lauinched YET so they still NEED it to: Developr the UK capabilities in this area. What? Stealth... "I won't say anything about the visual pollution of yours, but what ? Neither France nor UK are known master of stealth, what's the issue with trying to be one ?" About YOU go stuff yourself with proper INFOs for a change jerk? STFU. Dassault didn't get their role into NEURON without mastering it in fact they sayed so as early as 2003 and get support foprm DGA in this. Now get yourself informed and polluts whatever part of the brain of yours you want with accuracy of information. You have the nasty habbit to open it too wide about what you don't know. Dismissed.

[Fonck]

Dassault/SNECMA/Thales already applied stealth technology to Rafale long ago = result a RCS 50% lower than Typhoon. As for what they did, they didn't certainly NEED to put more than two petit Duc together because they had design capabilities BAE doesn't have even today. PROOF? Who fucked-up: Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. So this is the real level of BAe design expertise. As for Dassault, they developed the most advanced design tools in the world. Now used by Boeing and such and doesn't EVEN NEED A PROTOTYPE anymore you got that straight???.* So Rob L if you can't even comprehend what technology is about and why BAe need 6 UAVs to try to keep up with even SAAB it's simply because you never bothered learning about the subject in general and that your interest on it is purely a flamer's one. You know the mine's biger syndrome you're suffering from??? BAE are charette (LOL!!!) and try to get MoD to bail them out from the deep they have been diging themself for the past 15 years. The list of major-cluster-sized fuckups above is testamnent of that. 2 Ducs and the best design skills in Eurtope is largely enough for Dassault where BAe needs 6 home made bigger "ducs" and a TDP. This is what Turners says and what MoD says. Develop capabilities that both SAAB and Dassault have never lost. * Just in case you chosed not to notice, Dassault have moved on from conventional design drills. With their latest Falcons, they go straight from CATIA to production. It is a WORLD first and years ahead of any competitors including the US so you bet BAe need 6 UAVS to keep up with them. Keep laughing.

[Invité Rob]

So except trying to divert attention you can't come up with anything. Rafale is no full stealth aircraft taking that as developing stealth tech is not a good argument. Dassault hasn't got as much experience in UAVs as BAe, that's a fact.

[Fonck]

No NEED to. Dassault already posses the design skills, the tools, the technology. This is REALITY and i'm not trying to divert whatever as opposed to YOU... BAE doersn't have neither and NEED these UAVs as well as a UCAV TDP to keep up. Simple. Is this the distraction you're talking about??? Who fucked-up: Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. Who developed CATIA and are years in advance in terms of design capabilities and skill??? Who NEED a TDP and SIX UAVs to keep up with them (If they can)???

[Invité Rob]

lol, this is so typical when you've been proven wrong you just come up with "It' like that, cause I say so". Oh and btw since Dassault is so much more advanced in UAVs why is much of neurons design and most important parts made in Sweden by Saab?

[Fonck]

What did YOU prove i was WRONG about little man? That BAe can't even pout a simple wing together without screwing it up? That Dassault have the most advanced design tools and capabilities in the world? I can prove that any time because this is REALITY not your Disneylandish version of it so keep loling mate. >>>>> Who fucked-up: Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. Who developed CATIA and can produce aircraft without going through of the prototyping stage, a unique capability in the world?

[Fonck]

Not because i say so because it IS so. Since you turn blue every time you have a look at Dassault achievements it's not surprising you're still living in coucouland, inventing this TDP for the best part of last year and trying to imply that these unarmed UAVs are actually UCAVS you're a Mytho my friend and a liar.

[Fonck]

"Oh and btw since Dassault is so much more advanced in UAVs why is much of neurons design and most important parts made in Sweden by Saab?" Sorry who says so??? SHOW us what more important than Dassault role is in NEURON you Flame. That's all you got ignorance to the extreme and total diregard for reality. Take a hike. Dasautl ARE design LEAD, main Architects, and prime contractor with 50% of the workshare. Bye ma poule.

[Invité Rob]

IMO Saab's role is as important as Dassaults:

Saab is focusing on areas such as:

- overall/general design

- avionics systems

- airworthiness

- autonomy

- multiload capabilities

- structural design and manufacturing

- ground/flight Testing

Link:

http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/ShowProduct.aspx?ProductCategoryId=268&ProductGroupId=283&ProductId=1259

[Fonck]

Saab is focusing on areas such as: - overall/general design - avionics systems - airworthiness - autonomy - multiload capabilities - structural design and manufacturing - ground/flight Testing That's SAAB Ma poule NOT Dassault. Thanks to do your home work and tell US (Like we didn't KNOW) that Dassault are doing in the NEURON programme. And by the way what sort of expert are you to juge about the importance of each partners role???? You couldn't tell your mother's iron from a Mirage 2000. Ce mec est VRAIMENT Abrtuti par la bierre ma parole... >>>>>> La répartition industrielle est la suivante : - Dassault Aviation exerce la maîtrise d’œuvre d’ensemble du programme avec notamment la conception générale, l’assemblage final et certains essais en vol. Thales est chargé de la liaison de données entre l’opérateur et le Neuron. - Le suédois SAAB a pris la responsabilité du fuselage, de l’avionique et d’une partie des essais en vol. - A Alenia, l’industriel italien, revient notamment la responsabilité du système de désignation et de tir. - En Espagne, EADS/CASA est chargé des voilures et de la station de contrôle au sol. - HAI, avionneur grec, est, quant à lui, chargé de la réalisation d’une partie du fuselage. - Le suisse RUAG intervient dans les essais en soufflerie et la fourniture de dispositifs d’emport de l’armement. http://www.defense.gouv.fr/sites/defense/base/divers/intervention_de_liga_sandeau_09.02.06/?_&ispopup=1

[Invité Rob]

Your post is not understandable. Saab has an extremly important role, also consider that it's Saabs Neuron concept that has turned out to be the one they are going forward with. It's simple BAe has developed more UAVs in numbers which are more advanced and bigger UAVs. I find it funny that you seem to consider yourself an expert, the last time I checked you were a jobless beggar living on the streets of acountry you hate.

[Fonck]

You dont WANT to understand anyway. You failed to make your point about BAe, so now you try Dassault and play stoopid. The whole WORLD of Aerospacial industries KNOWS that BAe is in tatters and Dassault more advanvced in design capabilities than most other companies in the world. No need for a foto finish. http://www.defense.gouv.fr/sites/defense/base/divers/intervention_de_liga_sandeau_09.02.06/?_&ispopup=1 And learn your shit before daring talking BULLS like you do on the WAAF people are educated here not your usual dumbass bar pilar you got it? La répartition industrielle est la suivante : - Dassault Aviation exerce la maîtrise d’œuvre d’ensemble du programme avec notamment la conception générale, l’assemblage final et certains essais en vol. Thales est chargé de la liaison de données entre l’opérateur et le Neuron. - Le suédois SAAB a pris la responsabilité du fuselage, de l’avionique et d’une partie des essais en vol. - A Alenia, l’industriel italien, revient notamment la responsabilité du système de désignation et de tir. - En Espagne, EADS/CASA est chargé des voilures et de la station de contrôle au sol. - HAI, avionneur grec, est, quant à lui, chargé de la réalisation d’une partie du fuselage. - Le suisse RUAG intervient dans les essais en soufflerie et la fourniture de dispositifs d’emport de l’armement.

[Invité Rob]

The whole WORLD of Aerospacial industries KNOWS that BAe is in tatters and Dassault more advanvced in design capabilities than most other companies in the world. No need for a foto finish.

Ah okay lol. I think you can't cope with the truth, BAe has had a lot of programmes in the last years in the area of UAVs whilst Dassault had two. BAe is leading Europe in UAVs simple really, anyone who looks at what has flown to date or what has been done in terms of UAVs has to come to this conclusion.