BAe et leurs U(C)AVs

[Fonck]

"Ah okay lol. I think you can't cope with the truth, BAe has had a lot of programmes in the last years in the area of UAVs " The truth boy is that /dassault already have the necessary skills without having to cry out to DGA for a TDP to develop them. As i say BAe only can screw up any serious programme and there are as many examples of that as needed. >>>>> Here is the truth BOY and you're more than welcome to try to prove me wrong, i know you're weting your pants 24/7 ast the idea but it's not going to happen on that one..... Who fucked-up: Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. Who developed CATIA and can produce aircraft without going through of the prototyping stage, a unique capability in the world? Who needs 6 UAV and a TDP to try to keep up with SAAB and Dassault???

[TMor]

Ils manquent pas de ressources nos amis Rob & Fonck. Vous ferez la paix un jour ? Histoire d'encore mieux vous disputer ? :lol: C'est comme Tom & Jerry hein ? Vous vous cherchez en permanence mais c'est un jeu n'est-ce pas ? :lol:

[Fonck]

Des resources il n'en a pas. Vas sur le WAAF et vois ce qu'il fait des UAVs de BAe des UCAVs ma foi pourquoi pas, comme pas mal de jopuros anglais exagerent de la meme facon c'est la tradition Anglaise.... >>>>> Reality STRIKE. Here is the truth BOY and you're more than welcome to try to prove me wrong, i know you're weting your pants 24/7 ast the idea but it's not going to happen on that one..... Who fucked-up: Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. Who developed CATIA and CAN produce aircraft without going through of the prototyping stage, a unique capability in the world? Who needs 6 UAV and a TDP to try to keep up with SAAB and Dassault???

[Invité Rob]

Who needs 6 UAV and a TDP to try to keep up with SAAB and Dassault???

Noone. They need these UAVs to easily surpass both companies which they have done... with ease. That is the truth and you're too blinded by hatred to see it. You seem to agree that Dassault hasn't done as much in the UAV area, though you then draw the wrong conclusion. Whilst your weird conclusion is: "The fact that Dassault has done less in this area means they are better than BAe", any sane person will come to this conclusion: "The fact that Dassault has done less in this area means that BAe is ahead". It's simple and your spinning won't change it: BAe has designed more UAVs which are more advanced than those from Dassault [autonomy for example] thus acquiring more advanced skills in this area.

[glitter]

Ces UAV fait maison ne sont pas plus avances technologiquement que les Duc (petit). De plus ils sont tous destines a un domaine technologique different. Un TDP c'est destine a developer ces capacitees ni plus ni moins et ce dans l'enssemble du domaine technologique d'un UAV. NEURON est destine a developer les capaciteed de combat pas la technologie Stealth ou UAV que SAAB et Dasault maitrisent deja.

Le petit duc a servis à Dassault à maitriser le vol d'un tel engin déja. Sur le AIRFAN, on parler de "controle par glissade", mais je n'en sais pas plus.

Bref, certainement du même niveau technologique que le petit duc, chacun défrichant des domaines différents, ben ca roule non ?

Le petit duc has been use to test that aerodynamic configuration. Anyway, the british UCAV doesn't seem more advanced but not less advanced too.

And since each is a test for several different aspects of the problem, what's

your point ?

About YOU go stuff yourself with proper INFOs for a change jerk? STFU.

Dassault didn't get their role into NEURON without mastering it in fact they sayed so as early as 2003 and get support foprm DGA in this.

NEuron ne peut pas être consideré comme une preuve de maitrise de la furtivité par Dassault, car déja le Neuron n'est qu'une maquette à l'heure actuelle.

Neuron, still a mock up cannot be use as an argument about the mastering of stealth from Dassault.

Dassault/SNECMA/Thales already applied stealth technology to Rafale long ago = result a RCS 50% lower than Typhoon.

As for what they did, they didn't certainly NEED to put more than two petit Duc together because they had design capabilities BAE doesn't have even today.

And of course you can prove it.

Of course, your pathetic arguments are a waste of bandwith, nothing more.

[Invité Rob]

Thank you Glitter you brought some common sense into this thread. :)

[Fonck]

glitter "Le petit duc a servis à Dassault à maitriser le vol d'un tel engin déja. Sur le AIRFAN, on parler de "controle par glissade", mais je n'en sais pas plus." Peut etre parceque tu ne comprends pas le mot instabilite ni les raisons deriere le dessin des deux petit Ducs.... "Bref, certainement du même niveau technologique que le petit duc, chacun défrichant des domaines différents, ben ca roule non ? " Parfaitement. C'est ou en etaient Dassault en 2002. Le petit duc has been use to test that aerodynamic configuration. Anyway, the british UCAV doesn't seem more advanced but not less advanced too. And since each is a test for several different aspects of the problem, what's your point ? My point is CLEAR: you ignore two facts: First of all the Logiduc process was not only about aerodynamic arrangement and flight laws for them, but more to the point and firstly: Stealth technology implied in the two configurations and design tested. "NEuron ne peut pas être consideré comme une preuve de maitrise de la furtivité par Dassault, car déja le Neuron n'est qu'une maquette à l'heure actuelle." They don't NEED to prove anything to anyone they are the most advanced in the EUs and world top as for design and conceiption. Just in case you choosed not to ignoe reality as usual. They already master the technology and are far more advanced than BAe and most other aircraft manufacturers in the design/manufature process. Not the case of BAE wich long list of technical and design problems are well known to the rest of the world and the reason why they need to practice their design skills with 6 UAVs. Just in case you still don't get it. ASTUTE design was a problem to BAe as a CAD application, same for NIMROD MR4. Totally different ballgame from a company leading the world in design tooling as well as production tooling. To remind you and Rob L Dassault are the only aircraft manufacturer in the world to be able to go straight from design to production without the need for protoyping. Not BAe case and this is the reasons why Turner said they needed these programmes but also the UCAV TDP to be launched. Clear? Or you want to rewrite history too? The master the technology since 2002 and just incase you wan to stop your basic revisioninsm, they applied stealth technology to Rafale to make it the 4th gen aircraft with the lowest RCS/ This is also valid for SNECMA. Second AGAIN Ducs were designed to explore material/design and shape for stealth APLICATIONS. SAAB and Dassault have been there 4 years ago "And of course you can prove it. Of course, your pathetic arguments are a waste of bandwith, nothing more. " Yes i can. Read the recent history of Dassault in terms of design and production, the fact that you are an ignorant doen't make it reality and by the way learn about the industry as well as you can't figure what is needed to apply these technologies to any flying vehicle..... It is your ignorance which is pathetic no more than this. First aerospacial company in the world to achieve the whole process from design to first flight without the need of a prototype = Falcon 7X. Thanks for being informing yourself next time you try that one. Not screwing up the last fundamental and critical designs they had to tackle. http://www.dassault-aviation.com/gb/technologie/ Tools: the digital age Dassault Aviation uses digital modeling for calculating airframes, aerodynamics and the effects of electromagnetic radiation, for computer-aided design and manufacturing (CAD/CAM), and for research into the operational use of weapon systems. The IT department also creates simulation tools and technical documentation systems used in providing support services to civil and military aircraft. However, the Company continues to use conventional physical resources for design and validation such as test banks for flight control or automatic pilot systems. The entire industrial chain (Product Life Management [PLM]), from design to production and finally support, is based on software developed by Dassault Systèmes (CATIA V4 and V5, ENOVIA VPM and DELMIA), thus ensuring consistent, continuous, secure and effective production. ETC funny rigolos like you keep writing about what they don't know. I'm really having a laugh.

[Fonck]

The Falcon 7X engineering leveraged the use of Dassault Systems CATIA software as the foundation to create complete virtual definitions of the aircraft. Utilization of this process ranged from the smallest components (i.e fasteners), through to the re-creation of the complete aircraft environment itself. Imagine the power of foresight realized through every engineering detail and possible vision. Now imagine that power harnessed and shared with a team of Dassault Engineers and program partners in real-time. All working together to create the next generation of Falcons through a world we refer to as the Digital Mock-up Universe (DMU). For the first time, the reality of production can mirror precisely the vision created in digital, virtual form. Thus, ensuring the highest levels of quality control, precision and pro-active address of issues during the critical engineering and design stages. The digital mock-up ensures the following benefits: • Design : Complete design realization from Day 1, allowing for maximum leads times to address design issues and optimize performance results. • Manufacturing: Digital models are validated immediately through to operations and production. Hence ensuring feasibility and efficiency of implementation. • Maintenance: Digital simulations provide foresight ability to modify design in accordance to maximized ease of use and access critical to the maintenance and operation of the aircraft. In reality, the Digital Mock-up Universe ensures the creation of a living representation of the aircraft from concept through to production. Creating yet another class of Falcon excellence. I thought i would help making your education here...

[glitter]

Peut etre parceque tu ne comprends pas le mot instabilite ni les raisons deriere le dessin des deux petit Ducs....

Peut être parce que tu ne sait pas répondre dans le droit fil de la question et que tu répond à coté .....

Parfaitement. C'est ou en etaient Dassault en 2002.

SAuf que ces UCAV ne sont pas récent pour la plupart et défriches des domaines qu'officiellement, Dassault n'a pas approché.

My point is CLEAR: you ignore two facts: First of all the Logiduc process was not only about aerodynamic arrangement and flight laws for them, but more to the point and firstly: Stealth technology implied in the two configurations and design tested.

Yeah, big time, your "two facts" is a single fact :rolleyes:

Bae, 6 UCAV so 6 domains versus two for DAssault ? Am I wrong ?

Super, j'ignore deux choses et t'est fichu d'en oublier une.

Donc le petit duc à servis de test pour la maitrise d'une telle config aérodynamique et la furtivité. Donc Bae avec ses 6 UCAV met Dassault à l'amende.

They don't NEED to prove anything to anyone they are the most advanced in the EUs and world top as for design and conceiption.

Rob, have you heard about the PAris football team, the PSG ?

Fonk remind me of them :D :D

They already master the technology and are far more advanced than BAe and most other aircraft manufacturers in the design/manufature process.

Where ? When ?

It's easy to have fun of Bae because the USA have "given" them informations about stealth, but we know for sure Bae has those when for Dassault, it's not so obvious.

Quand et à quelle occasion Dassault à montré sa maitrise de la furitvité ?

On a beau se moquer des angalis qui ont leur technologie stealth veanant des USA mais on est certains qu'il l'ont eux.

Not the case of BAE wich long list of technical and design problems are well known to the rest of the world and the reason why they need to practice their design skills with 6 UAVs.

Because they f*ck up the Nimrod design they won't be able forever to design a modern plane ?

Totally different ballgame from a company leading the world in design tooling as well as production tooling. To remind you and Rob L Dassault are the only aircraft manufacturer in the world to be able to go straight from design to production without the need for protoyping.

How to start from a fact to conclude in a totally different matter.

Comment partir d'une observation pour arriver à une conclusion délirante.

Not BAe case and this is the reasons why Turner said they needed these programmes but also the UCAV TDP to be launched. Clear? Or you want to rewrite history too?

Either you missed the fact that severals of these ucav are three years old, either you're good for the asylum.

The master the technology since 2002 and just incase you wan to stop your basic revisioninsm, they applied stealth technology to Rafale to make it the 4th gen aircraft with the lowest RCS/ This is also valid for SNECMA.

Prove it or shutup.

Second AGAIN Ducs were designed to explore material/design and shape for stealth APLICATIONS. SAAB and Dassault have been there 4 years ago

Nothing close to the size of a NEURON

Yes i can. Read the recent history of Dassault in terms of design and production, the fact that you are an ignorant doen't make it reality and by the way learn about the industry as well as you can't figure what is needed to apply these technologies to any flying vehicle.....

I said prove it.

It's YOUR lack of understanding of many that I can read.

First aerospacial company in the world to achieve the whole process from design to first flight without the need of a prototype = Falcon 7X. Thanks for being informing yourself next time you try that one.

What's the link with fully stealth fighter ?

[glitter]

bein justement non puisque les americains veulent pas partager!

Ca c'est maintenant, ce n'était pas le cas avant.

et que les rosbifs voudraient bien leurs porte avions plein de rafales!

N'éxagérons rien.

de plus dassault a participé plus dans le design du raptor et F35 que BAe, puisque non seulement ils vendent CATIA mais les ingés avec pour les simus!

Dassault system et non pas Dassault aviation, révisez les classiques.

Boeing avait filé un petit contrat de moins de vingt millions de dollars à Dassault pour son X-32, rien de plus.

les etudes demontrent qu'il y a 4 fois plus de personel dans la recherche en france et que les français deposent 4 fois plus de brevets!

donc tes espoirs sont tres peu defendables!

Premièrement:

http://www.lexpansion.com/compteur/compteur.asp?compteurId=689&redirURL=http://www.lexpansion.com/art/2330.73710.0.html

Deuxièmement, restons sur le sujet.

Dassault: 2 versions du petit duc

Bae: 6 UCAV

Merci

[Francois5 v2.1]

La France au cinquième rang mondial pour les brevets

Les demandes internationales de brevet ont atteint l'an dernier le chiffre record de 113.249, selon l'Organisation mondiale de la propriété intellectuelle (OMPI), une augmentation de 2% par rapport à 2002. Ces demandes sont approuvées dans environ 80% des cas. Les Etats-Unis restent de très loin en tête du classement, avec 36% des demandes déposées à l'OMPI, en léger déclin toutefois par rapport à 2002 (37%), 2001 (40%) et 2000 (41%). Les inventeurs et les entreprises du Japon ont pris la deuxième place, avec 15% du total (13% en 2002), passant devant l'Allemagne (12%) pour la première fois depuis 13 ans. Viennent ensuite le Royaume-Uni (5,5%) et la France (4,3%). Au total, les Etats-Unis, le Japon et les 27 pays de la Convention européenne des brevets ont représenté 84% des demandes l'an dernier. A l’opposé, seul 10 pays en développement ont déposé plus de 10 demandes de brevets en 2003.

Mince, et les mecs sur le Net nous disent que la Chine est en avance sur le monde des decoucertes :!: :?:

[Invité Rob]

tu fais pas le rapport entre propieté intellectuelles et brevets qui decoulent de recherche scientifique en plus?

c'est meme ridicule! madona a deposée un brevet pour chaque chanson de son dernier album, qu'elle exploit! lol

ici ont parle des brevets deposé au niveau europeen, http://annual-report.european-patent-office.org/2004/_pdf/epo_anrep04.pdf

en comparant la france a augmenté de mille depuis 2001, et toujours deux fois plus que les anglish!

Seems you're so insecure about Dassault that you are retreating to other areas. This is childish, do I start posting how much lower the UK unemployment is, how much higher UK growth is?

BaE 6 UCAV? tu fais rire, c'est pour un effet?

Dassault, Thales, EADS, Sagem ont deja des UCAV UAV en exploitation!

BAe? Zero!!!!

Raven, ha ha ha, laissez moi rire!

You're so funny. So how many UCAVs are in use in France?

[TDidier]

Thales are leader of Watchkeeper in uk, Auryon, ENSMM, ENSMA,

Sagem , Crécerelle,MCMM , Sperwer, CL-289..

EADS, EUROMALE, Eurohawks,HALE

Dassault , Slowfast , nEUROn....

Il ne faut surtout pas oublier le Dassault Vehra, trés prometteur: Mach14 et spatial...

[Francois5 v2.1]

Thales are leader of Watchkeeper in uk, Auryon, ENSMM, ENSMA,

Sagem , Crécerelle,MCMM , Sperwer, CL-289..

EADS, EUROMALE, Eurohawks,HALE

Dassault , Slowfast , nEUROn....

Dans le contexte de mondialisation (Thales, 65000 personnes, combien en France?) est-ce vraiment raisonnable?

[Invité Rob]

Thales are leader of Watchkeeper in uk

The UAV being Israeli and the sensors being supplied by Thales UK with Thales UK being prime on the programme.

, Auryon, ENSMM, ENSMA,

Links?

Sagem , Crécerelle,

Based on a UAV supplied by Meggitt, a UK company.

http://www.meggitt-defence.co.uk/spec01.htm

MCMM , Sperwer, CL-289..

CL289 is extremly old, Sperwer is a derivative of Crecerelle.

EADS, EUROMALE, Eurohawks,HALE

Eurohawk is just electronics the UAV is American [besides Eurohawk is done by the German part of EADS], with Euromale the UAV is to a large degree Israeli. What's HALE?

Dassault , Slowfast , nEUROn....

Slowfast is just a concept and Neuron is years away from first flight.

I think it's very desperate of you to include concepts such as Slowfast or UAVs done in the UK or Germany where the company is partly French owned (EADS) or totally (Thales).

[cvs]

je sens que Fonck va arriver.

[Invité ZedroS]

Ceci dit, il y a une question centrale que ni Fonk ni nungesserC n'ont répondu jusqu'à présent : comment Dassault a fait pour maitriser la furtivité ? Je sais qu'il faut que je révise mes classiques, mais là j'ai comme un gros trou... Je vois mal comment on peut conclure une telle chose à la vue de l'histoire de Dassault en fait. Le Rafale aurait certes peut être de l'annulation active, mais sa furtivité ne va guère plus loin. Où sont les études de matériau, de forme ? Où sont les prototypes/drones les validant ? Et pas la peine de me ressortir toute l'histoire aéronautique de Dassault, du Mirage F1 au Mirage23523, je voudrais juste les épisodes soutenant l'argumentation "Dassault maitrise la furtivité".

[Invité Rob]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the UK in general is better at UAVs than France, to decide this I don't know enough about both UAV industries. What I'm saying is that BAe is ahead of Dassault. Some French poster brought the other French companies in to this not me. I'm just correcting the propaganda that is being spread by NungesserC.

[cvs]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the UK in general is better at UAVs than France, to decide this I don't know enough about both UAV industries. What I'm saying is that BAe is ahead of Dassault. Some French poster brought the other French companies in to this not me. I'm just correcting the propaganda that is being spread by NungesserC.

Are you a BAe VIP ?

[Invité Rob]

No, I'm a shareholder. :D Nah just joking..... I understand that they are the only UK company who can invade this market on a large scale successfully and thus create UK jobs which is important to me. 8)

[Fonck]

"Don't get me wrong I'm not saying the UK in general is better at UAVs than France, to decide this I don't know enough about both UAV industries. What I'm saying is that BAe is ahead of Dassault. Some French poster brought the other French companies in to this not me. I'm just correcting the propaganda that is being spread by NungesserC."

You're talking Shrite as usual.

You're the propagandiste here. ANYONE seeing your actual signature in the WAAF can see that. A L.I.A.R too.

WHO is a PROVEN LIAR and a piss taker here???

As for glitter he is a total funnie on that one, uncapable to see things as they really are.

>>>>>

To be ahead of anyone they should be ahead designwise and they lag behind. Proof? Who can't even put the wing of a maritime surveillance aircraft together wihout screwing the poutch?

You're the only one with your head deep enoughup your @ss to keep ignoring facts. But this plus your usual level of hypocrisy and lack of intellectual honnesty and explains the whole thing. So keep writing W.H.A.T.E.V.E.R, it's just a stupid attitude and this driven by the wrong motives.

>>>>>

Reality strike:

The budget finaly allocated to NEURON, of an amount of eu 405 millions, more than originally planed, allows to equip it with a modular bay in which wioulod be instaled a laser designator amd a bomb that rthis designator would guide, which would give it a totally auronomous strike capability.

The choise for the Dassault company for main contractor role have been made easy by the industrial initiative developed by this company since 1999 under the term "logiduc": Logic of UCAV developement.

Dassault logiduc programme:

The first realisation of this programme is named "Petit Duc" or AVE-D (Experimental validation Aircraft - Discretion i.e stealth or Low Observability).

It is a two engine aircraft of 50 kg and 2 m in wingspan, radio controled and entirely made of Furtive material. The first flight date is July 2000, after work marked by the will to reduce the aircraft RCS and IR signature.

Then appears in July 2001, the Moyen Duc, weighting 500 kg, which is capable of flying at 60 m/s for surveillance missions and 200 m/s for recce missions.

Its autonomy is up to four hours.

It is a tactical reconaissance Drone answering to the need of the French Army post SDTI.

Grand Duc was aiming at demonstrating operational combat mission, while developing Low observability, furtivity and flight control.

>>>>>>>>>

In 2003 Dassault aviation stated that the company mastered the stealth technology.

>>>>>>>>>

This is issued from the French Senat Session ordinaire of 2005-2006 i.e Information Report.

No bulls No gimmick no need for lies and general exagerations and inexactitudes. The real thing.

Note that they aslo say that stealth technology will be further developed with the NEURON programme which is to be expected as it would be stupid not to but it is not the main goal of the programme.

So there you go: Two petit Ducs and a Moyed Duc under their belt, with no technologica or design issues there, as they are world's top in the area and stealth technology developed with vehicles as heavy as 500 kg.

As i was saying, the Petit ducs (Both being of a different design, the second AVE-C, a tail-less instable aircraft and Moyen Duc which apparently flew in 2001 were designed to get to ther point where BAe are now.

With a main difference. Dassault have NO such issue as technology and design expertise to solve and doesn't NEED to put six UAVs together to achieve that on top of the Logiduc main goals....

More to it, apparently as main architects and lead design the French Senat at least atributes the conceiptual design to Dassault NOT SAAB which are tasked with structural design.

Still, there a limit to what French politicians are capable of understanding in terms of aerospacial matters, i have to validate a couple of these infos to make sure but other sources seems to be corroborating these.

Dassault are not only way ahead pf BAe design and technology wise they sure don't NEED 6 UAV (wrongly propagandated by yourself as being UCAVs in the WAAF) to keep up with their concurents.

Who fucked-up:

Nimrod AEW

Nimrod Mr4

Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug

Harrier II Rear fuselage

EFA Wings

Astute design.

Who developed CATIA and can produce aircraft without going through of the prototyping stage, a unique capability in the world?

Who needs 6 UAV and a TDP to try to keep up with SAAB and Dassault???

There is NO UCAV in the UK the UCAV TDP is still NOT launched by MoD.

"The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue"

They did their home work on bits and bobds and design skills certainly not to the level attained by Dassault who are world leader in design with CATIA. Last BAE couldn't apply CAD design to ASTUTE and it cost MoD £26 million to pay the US Electric Boat to sort them out....

Again:

Who fucked-up:

Nimrod AEW

Nimrod Mr4

Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug

Harrier II Rear fuselage

EFA Wings

Astute design.

Is ythis propagande? Is this notREAL history and recnt for most? Is this not the real diffewrence in technology and design cap[abilities between Dassault/SAAD and BAE? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Have a nice day.

[Fonck]

ZedroS "Je sais qu'il faut que je révise mes classiques, mais là j'ai comme un gros trou... " Apparament t'est pas le seul. En plus de Dassault tu devrais visiter le site de l'ONERA.... Quand a ceux qui ecrivent sans savoir encore une fois vos motivations ne sont pas les bonnes. Me dis surtout pas que j'ai pas divulgue ces infos dans ce topic, choisir de les igonrer c'est un fait, nier la realite un autre.

[glitter]

c'est meme ridicule! madona a deposée un brevet pour chaque chanson de son dernier album, qu'elle exploit! lol

ici ont parle des brevets deposé au niveau europeen, http://annual-report.european-patent-office.org/2004/_pdf/epo_anrep04.pdf

en comparant la france a augmenté de mille depuis 2001, et toujours deux fois plus que les anglish!

Sort moi donc que les brevets lié à l'aérospatiale pour voir.

BaE 6 UCAV? tu fais rire, c'est pour un effet?

Dassault, Thales, EADS, Sagem ont deja des UCAV UAV en exploitation!

BAe? Zero!!!!

Ah tient ? Que vient faire Thales EADS et Sagem maintenant ?

mais j'aime bien les francophones qui haïssent ce qui est français, ils me font rire, de plus sont pas tres instruit!

Un francais qui haït les francais ? Où ca ?

Glitter, AFM c'est bien pour toi, et oui la technologie stealth ils ont pas, car si ils l'avaient bein les ricains ne bloqueraient pas ce que les britons ont deja!

LEs USA ont filé des technologies stealth avec des conditions, entre autre interdiction de faire des appareils utilsiant ces technologies avec des pays étrangers.

en plus le stealth c'est pas non plus inconnu dans le monde, et le fait que ça gene les rosbifs montre bien leurs total desaroit sur ce point!

???

[glitter]

You're the propagandiste here. ANYONE seeing your actual signature in the WAAF can see that. A L.I.A.R too.

And ?

As for glitter he is a total funnie on that one, uncapable to see things as they really are.

I prefer to missed things that exist instead of you, seeing things out of thin air.

In 2003 Dassault aviation stated that the company mastered the stealth technology.

Sources ?

Dassault are not only way ahead pf BAe design and technology wise they sure don't NEED 6 UAV (wrongly propagandated by yourself as being UCAVs in the WAAF) to keep up with their concurents.

That argument is pathetic.

Does the idea that BAE wanted to test more areas than DAssault reach your brain ?

Who developed CATIA and can produce aircraft without going through of the prototyping stage, a unique capability in the world?

Who did the version of CATIA that can do that ?

not dassault aviation :p

[Fonck]

glitter Fonck a écrit: You're the propagandiste here. ANYONE seeing your actual signature in the WAAF can see that. A L.I.A.R too. And ? And WHAT???Does this sort of things make you feel like Rob is a crediteable source and reasons to claim what he is claiming?????? "I prefer to missed things that exist instead of you, seeing things out of thin air." Taking things that personally sure doesn't make you smarter. Poor boy you deserve each other really. Same level of intellectual deshonesty and personal matters before accuracy. You're a laugh. Fonck a écrit: In 2003 Dassault aviation stated that the company mastered the stealth technology. Sources ? Needs breast feeding at your age??? Or R U simply too lazy to do your home work and simply keep been an ennoying troll??? Because so far you keep writing manure instead of anything interesting because you simply won't bother informing yourself properly. Fonck a écrit: Dassault are not only way ahead pf BAe design and technology wise they sure don't NEED 6 UAV (wrongly propagandated by yourself as being UCAVs in the WAAF) to keep up with their concurents. That argument is pathetic. You're the pathetic one here. There are industriasl realities which you conveniently ignore. "Does the idea that BAE wanted to test more areas than DAssault reach your brain ?" Does ONERA and Dassault work since 1999 ring a bell to the brainless flame you are??? Does the idea that BAe chairman is actually ASKING MoD for the dosh to develop design skills further eludes you? "2005 BAe chasirman stament: "The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue" Does the idea that the reasons are lack of fully home designed programmes since Sea Harrier is the reason for their lack of experience and expertise escape your poor IQ? "The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue" Does the whole list of expensive design FUCK-UPs resuliting on these fact seems as alien to you as 2+2=4??? Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. "Who did the version of CATIA that can do that ? not dassault aviation :p " Dassault did mate. As all the industry knows not little "frappes" of your kind bubling about whatever they don't know about. Now i'm TIRED of completing your low level education. You're a WASTE of forum space and a pure flammer, a troll, take a hike i don't do breastfeeding. >>>>> Who fucked-up: Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. Who developed CATIA and can produce aircraft without going through of the prototyping stage, a unique capability in the world? Who needs 6 UAV and a TDP to try to keep up with SAAB and Dassault??? There is NO UCAV in the UK the UCAV TDP is still NOT launched by MoD. "The emphasis for this TDP, at the core of which would be a manned flying test-bed, "because of the need to master the stealth issue" They did their home work on bits and bobds and design skills certainly not to the level attained by Dassault who are world leader in design with CATIA. Last BAE couldn't apply CAD design to ASTUTE and it cost MoD £26 million to pay the US Electric Boat to sort them out.... Again: Who fucked-up: Nimrod AEW Nimrod Mr4 Tornado F-3 centre fuselage plug Harrier II Rear fuselage EFA Wings Astute design. Is this propaganda? Do you also WANT a source for these??? Is this not REAL history and recent one for most? Is this not the real difference in technology and design capabilities between Dassault/SAAB and BAE? Have a nice day.