La marine de guerre israëlienne

[cvs]

Le chef de la marine israélienne vu dans un club de strip-tease.

Il risque de quitter son poste. Affaire à suivre

Navy chief apologizes for strip club visit

After being spotted at Tel Aviv strip club Major General Eli Marom expresses remorse in letter to Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, says incident was one-time slip. Other officers say lower ranking officials have been penalized for straying from norms in past

Hanan Greenberg Published:  03.04.09, 08:43 / Israel News 

After news spread that Navy Chief Major General Eli Marom partied at a strip club in Tel Aviv Monday night, the naval commander expressed his remorse to IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi in a letter.

In the letter, which was given to Ashkenazi on Tuesday, Marom wrote that he had spent the previous night at a strip club, and said he was aware that such conduct was not in line with the army's values for an officer of his rank and added that it was a one-time slip that he regretted.

The senior officer also apologized to the chief of staff for damage the affair caused to the military's image. Ashkenazi made a note of the officer's explanation and reproached him.

Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper reported on Tuesday that the officer was spotted by civilians at an Allenby Street strip club the previous night, smoking a cigar, drinking alcohol and surrounded by bare-chested women.

Marom initially said in response that he "stayed for a short while after coming to say hi to a friend".

The incident became the talk of the day within the army, and stirred much embarrassment among senior officers. Quite a few officers criticized the commander, saying his visit to the club was "in bad taste" and called his night out "an immoral decision that is not becoming of an officer that is part of the general staff".

Other officers said that lower ranking commanders have been penalized for actions that strayed from the military's values and norms in the past.

"A military general is supposed to serve as a personal example and role model. When he does something like this he is shaking the foundations and legitimacy with which he operates against his subordinates in matters of values and discipline, and this incident should not have occurred," one officer said.

IDF sources said that military officers, including the senior ones among them, alongside their military roles and work around the clock, are also private citizens in their free time and are allowed to spend this time in any way the chose.

Nonetheless, an IDF sources said there was an "awkward feeling" about the kind of entertainment Marom had chosen.

Female officers: Marom has to go

Former Knesset Member Brig.-Gen. (res.) Amira Dotan told Ynet that she agreed the Navy chief should resign. "I don't know if what he did was demeaning to women, but regardless of this – he has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders, and part of it relates to his public conduct even when he's off duty… to be a commander is, first and foremost to be an ethical person."

Another senior female reserve officer, Deputy Haifa Mayor Brig.-Gen. Hedva Almog, also thinks that Marom should quit. "I'm very annoyed with what happened. This is inappropriate conduct, to say the least. It's improper that the female clerks entering his office this morning would have to think of where he was last night and what he did. I find this terrible."

   

Almog said that Marom failed to adhere to the standards expected from s senior army officer. "Someone who commands soldiers, and especially female soldiers, should know that these places are not a suitable meeting place for him – places that make cynical use of the woman's body and exploit it," she added.

C'est vraiment le bordel. Faut vraiment remettre de l'ordre.

[cvs]

Le LCS aurait du plomb dans l'aile en Israël. A priori tsahal chercherait une solution maison.

Israel Eyes Locally Built Warship

Drops LCS In Favor of German Design

By barbara opall-rome Published: 29 June 2009

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TEL AVIV - In a radical revamp of its surface fleet modernization program, the Israel Navy has shelved long-held plans to purchase Lockheed Martin-produced Littoral Combat Ships (LCS), as well as a fallback option involving corvettes built by Northrop Grumman.

Instead, sources say, the Navy is pushing to establish a combat shipbuilding industry through customized, locally built versions of a German corvette design.

Now in an exploration phase, the concept calls for a stretched, approximately 2,200-ton version of the Meko A-100 built by ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS), the Hamburg-based consortium building two Dolphin-class submarines for the Israel Navy. Countries that are building or now operating the 1,650-ton German-designed corvette include Malaysia and Poland.

Defense and industry sources said Navy discussions with TKMS about a possible licensed co-production deal began in January and have steadily expanded to involve Israel's Ministry of Defense, Treasury, relevant lawmakers and industry executives.

Under the plan, at least two ships would be produced at Israel Shipyards in Haifa, with state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) a likely candidate for lead systems integrator. Each ship, and anticipated options for follow-on builds, would be integrated "with the maximum amount of local capabilities specifically designed to our operational requirements," said an Israel Navy flag officer.

"One of the things we put on the table is how to vector our urgent operational needs into a project that can support local industry," the officer said. "We believe a strong case can be made for making this into a national project that fosters self-sufficiency and provides all the economic benefits that come with creating a military shipbuilding industry."

In an interview earlier this month, the senior naval officer said the revamped acquisition concept was driven by the prohibitive price tag of its preferred LCS-I (Israel) option.

Military, defense and industry sources here noted that since the Navy began pursuing LCS, unit costs surged from $220 million to $375 million to current U.S. Navy estimates, presented to the U.S. Congress in May, of $637 million. And while U.S. Navy and Lockheed Martin officials repeatedly maintained that rising U.S. costs for the full multimission system would have only a marginal impact on the Israeli program, which focused primarily on HM&E (hull, mechanical and electrical) equipment, experts here concluded otherwise.

10 Years of Study, No Deal

The naval officer acknowledged frustration at the millions of dollars and nearly a decade of study invested by Israel, the U.S. government and prime contractor Lockheed Martin to adapt the 3,300-ton system to local requirements.

"As much as we sought commonality with the U.S. Navy, it became much, much more expensive than planned. At the end of the day, we had no choice but to face the fact that, for us, it was unaffordable," he said.

When asked about the status of the Israeli LCS program, Fred Moosally, president of Lockheed Maritime Systems and Sensors, replied, "Israel decided they didn't need any more work in that area."

Similarly, Israeli naval experts concluded that a Northrop Grumman-proposed package for two Sa'ar-5Bs - an approximately 2,300-ton design based on the service's current operational Sa'ar-5 fleet - also exceeded projected budgets.

U.S. and Israeli sources said rough estimates for each Sa'ar-5B were about $450 million; but HM&E unit costs could have been reduced by more than $100 million had the Navy conducted a contract design.

"When Northrop Grumman makes a fixed-price offer, it's the result of an organized and serious process that allows the company to honor all of its commitments," a company representative said. "Without conducting a contract design - which eliminates most of the uncertainties that drive up price - NG couldn't offer the unit costs we all believed we could have delivered to the Israel Navy."

In a Feb. 12 letter, the director of naval procurement at MoD's purchasing mission in New York informed U.S. parties of the prospective change in acquisition strategy. "In the event this option turns out to be more suitable both in terms of our operational and budgetary requirements, the [multimission ships] will be built in Israel."

High-Risk Program

Despite widespread interest in the Navy-spearheaded effort, huge budgetary, political and technical uncertainties still threaten the ambitious program, sources here warn.

Assuming the customized Meko-100 meets naval requirements, and that MoD can conclude a deal with TKMS and the German government that allows Israel to leverage its investment beyond the planned domestic buy, it remains unclear how Israel intends to fund the program.

Unlike most major military acquisitions, which are based on U.S.-built platforms and funded through U.S. military grant aid, Israel will have to fund the bulk of the estimated $600 million program on its own.

"We're looking at all kinds of funding options, which do not necessarily have to come from MoD or [u.S. Foreign Military Financing] FMF accounts," another senior naval officer said. "If the political leaders determine that this is a critical national program, then it's reasonable to expect significant funding to come from the Treasury."

A Finance Ministry official confirmed that experts from the two ministries are examining how the establishment of a military shipbuilding industry would concretely contribute to the Israeli economy.

Once the two ministries can agree on benchmarks, he said, more detailed discussions will begin over how, if at all, the Treasury can contribute some advanced funding.

"The idea is to find a formula whereby the Treasury can provide upfront funding in the form of a no-interest loan to MoD," an industry executive in Tel Aviv said.

Merkava-Based Funding Model

Meanwhile, Navy and civilian defense officials have started to explore ways in which U.S. FMF funding can be applied to the program.

U.S. regulations allow Israel to convert some 26 percent of its annual aid into shekels to finance local projects. But most of those funds over the next several years already have been earmarked for high-priority programs, including the Barak-8 air and ship defense system and the MF-STAR multifunction radar planned for the new ships.

Sources here cite Israel's indigenous Merkava main battle tank as a prospective acquisition model. Although the tank is built in Israel from locally developed technologies and subsystems, hundreds of millions of FMF dollars have been used over the years to finance the program.

Items purchased with U.S. aid include steel, other raw materials and the German-designed diesel engine co-produced in the United States by General Dynamics Land Systems and MTU. MoD is exploring a similar U.S.-based co-production arrangement that would allow FMF funding of the Meko ship's MTU1168 engine, sources here said.

"It's doable," a Pentagon source said. "Direct Commercial Contract guidelines allow them to use FMF to fund U.S. content on non-U.S. platforms."

A U.S. export license official noted, however, that as with the export-restricted Merkava, U.S. content gives Washington control over export sales. ■

Christopher P. Cavas contributed to this report from Washington.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4160683&c=FEA&s=CVS

[cvs]

je croyais que les corvettes étaient entierement fabriqués aux USA...

Maintenant je comprends mieux pourquoi, ils veulent une version locale de corvettes plutôt que des LCS.

Sinon pour remplacer les pièces, les israéliens vont surement les copier. Ce serait dans le même ordre d'idée que pour les Mirage après l'embargo de De Gaulle.

[Philippe Top-Force]

Finalement non CVS, les Allemands pourraient aussi leurs venir en aide pour la flotte de surface.

06 July 2009

The Israel Navy (IN) has abandoned its plan to procure the US Navy's Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) as the baseline for a future surface combatant.

Instead the service is exploring the suitability of Germany's Blohm+Voss (B+V) MEKO A-100 corvette family with a high degree of Israeli content.

The IN is also hoping to move construction of the new 2,200-tonne corvettes in-country, with Israel Shipyards identified as the likely builder. The shipyard has primarily delivered fast attack craft to the IN, but was also responsible for local integration of the 1,295-tonne Eilat-class (Sa'ar 5) corvettes during the 1990s.

The decision follows two feasibility studies conducted by the IN in partnership with Lockheed Martin on the suitability of the LCS for Israeli requirements. It also marks another reversal of course, since the LCS had replaced earlier plans for corvettes or patrol ships.

"Rising costs of the LCS have forced us to look at other options," a senior IN source told Jane's on 1 July. The IN assessed that the procurement of the LCS platform combined with Israeli combat systems could cost more than USD600 million per vessel.

A proposal by Northrop Grumman to build an expanded version of the IN's Sa'ar 5 corvette was also rejected due to an estimated cost of USD450 million per vessel.

[cvs]

Je me demande pourquoi les israéliens ne cherchent pas à construire eux-mêmes leurs propres bâteaux.

Pas rentable ? Manque de connaissances ?

[P4]

CVS, lis ça: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4195272&c=FEA&s=BUS

[Baibars]

Je me demande pourquoi les israéliens ne cherchent pas à construire eux-mêmes leurs propres bâteaux.

Pas rentable ? Manque de connaissances ?

Ils ont un chantier de construction navale justement?

[g4lly]

Ils ont un chantier de construction navale justement?

Oui oui a Haifa

Now, with an Israel Navy plan to build at least two warships under license from a German consortium, Israel Shipyards stands to experience additional growth over several years as it enters into a new niche of high-end military ship construction.

If implemented by the government, the Navy plan offers a quantum leap in capability for a yard whose military experience is limited to its Shaldag series of small, fast patrol craft and Sa'ar-4 and Sa'ar-4.5 missile boats.

[g4lly]

Debka via Corlobe

http://www.corlobe.tk/article16224.html

Des sources navales occidentales rapportent que les sous-marins israéliens Dolphin, de construction allemande, ont été lourdement modifiés : leurs tubes lance-torpilles ont été élargis pour lancer des missiles, de nouveaux matériels électroniques ont été installés et la capacité de leurs réservoirs de carburant a été augmentée pour leur permettre de rester 50 jours en mer sans ravitaillement. 8 ans après la livraison du premier des 3 sous-marins Dolphin par l’Allemagne, des sources navales les considèrent comme les sous-marins classiques les plus modernes au monde.

Selon des sources navales étrangères, Israël aurait équipé ses sous-marins Dolphin de missiles de croisière d’une portée de 1.500 km — de fabrication israélienne —, équipés de têtes nucléaires de 200 kt, et de missiles Harpoon — de fabrication américaine — d’une portée de 135 km, équipés eux aussi de têtes nucléaires. Ces missiles, lancés par les tubes lance-torpilles récemment élargis à un diamètre de 650 mm, peuvent atteindre les cibles côtières iraniennes, y compris ses sites nucléaires, les ports et les installations des Gardiens de la Révolution.

Les réservoirs agrandis des Dolphin leur permettent de parcourir des distances de 10.000 km (au lieu de 8.000 auparavant) et de passer plus de temps en mer (jusqu’à 50 jours).

Contrairement aux 3 premiers exemplaires livrés, les 2 futurs Dolphin seront équipés d’une propulsion anaérobie (AIP) leur permettant de rester jusqu’à une semaine en plongée sans faire surface. Ils seront aussi plus discrets et plus difficiles à détecter par les forces ASM iraniennes.

[cvs]

J'ai lu que la marine israélienne prévoit d'acquérir un autre Dolphin en plus des deux derniers. C'était une option. Reste à trouver le financement.

[Philippe Top-Force]

J'ai lu que la marine israélienne prévoit d'acquérir un autre Dolphin en plus des deux derniers. C'était une option. Reste à trouver le financement.

Le même que celui pour les frégates, ils se les font financer par Berlin.http://www.corlobe.tk/article16225.html En attendant, 2 corvettes de plus !

http://www.corlobe.tk/article16652.html

[cvs]

C'est vraiment nécessaire, ces bâtiments ? Les avions ça suffit pas ?

[g4lly]

C'est vraiment nécessaire, ces bâtiments ? Les avions ça suffit pas ?

Les avions c'est tres vulnérable ... les sous marins ca l'est moins et en plus c'est super discret.

[cvs]

Les avions c'est tres vulnérable ... les sous marins ca l'est moins et en plus c'est super discret.

Pardon. J'ai pas assez précisé.

Je parlais surtout des corvettes car à priori, elles servent juste à protéger les côtes, et je me demandais, vu le nombre d'avions à disposition chez tsahal et le reste de la marine, si elles étaient vraiment nécessaires.

Car tsahal préfère acheter des avions et ces derniers temps, il semble y avoir un rééquilibrage.

[g4lly]

Pardon. J'ai pas assez précisé.

Je parlais surtout des corvettes car à priori, elles servent juste à protéger les côtes, et je me demandais, vu le nombre d'avions à disposition chez tsahal et le reste de la marine, si elles étaient vraiment nécessaires.

Car tsahal préfère acheter des avions et ces derniers temps, il semble y avoir un rééquilibrage.

Faut croire que non ;)

Les sources militaires de DEBKAfile indiquent que les 2 corvettes sont nécessaires pour contrer le renforcement des sous-marins iraniens et des bâtiments syriens en Méditerranée, et défendre les installations côtières comme les centrales électriques et les bases navales, dont les services israéliens de renseignement craignent qu’elles ne soient en danger en cas de guerre régionale.

http://www.corlobe.tk/article16652.html

[don_ccicci]

Je parlais surtout des corvettes car à priori, elles servent juste à protéger les côtes, et je me demandais, vu le nombre d'avions à disposition chez tsahal et le reste de la marine, si elles étaient vraiment nécessaires.

Il doit y avoir la-dessous des enseignements tirés du blocus naval, lors de la guerre du Liban.  

Et il faut bien remplacer les Saar'4 et Saar'4.5 , qui sont des patrouilleurs lance-missiles, de préférence par des bâtiments plus endurants et adaptés (hélicos), donc des corvettes.

Et enfin ils se préparent peut-être à se mettre à la lutte asm.

contrer le renforcement des sous-marins iraniens

Euh, ca fait un peu loin la, non ?

Et puis ils n'en ont que trois, pas AIP, qui vieillissent, pas d'expérience de déploiements lointains...

Les autres sont des sous-marins de poche.

Par contre, mieux se protéger face aux soum Algériens, Libyens, ca parait plus crédible.

Mais le prétexte Iran ca marche sans doute mieux, et ca froisse personne.

[cvs]

A German defense delegation will arrive in Israel next month for high-level talks to focus on an Israeli request to purchase two Meko-class missile ships.

The delegation will be led by senior officials from the German Defense Ministry and the German Navy. Talks on the Israeli side will be led by Defense Ministry director-general Pinhas Buchris and Navy commander Vice Admiral Eliezer Marom.

While the Navy has yet to finalize its order, it is working on a concept under which the 2,000-ton ship would be designed by the German company Blohm and Voss, which manufactures the Meko family of warships.

The design would be similar to the existing Israeli Sa'ar 5-class ship but would be slightly larger, to enable it to carry the massive IAI-made Adir radar, capable of providing an extensive over-the-horizon radar view.

The ship will be capable of carrying special forces and larger infantry units as well as midsize vehicles, alongside at least one helicopter. The ship will also be installed with the anti-ship Harpoon Missile, as well as the Barak anti-missile defense system.

Each ship is expected to cost over $300 million, and Israel is hoping that the German government will provide part of the funding, as it has in the past for Israeli submarines.

Germany is currently building two Dolphin-class submarines for Israel, expected to become operational in the next few years.

Source : Jerusalem Post

[cvs]

Il paraît que les israéliens négocient un sixième sous-marin et deux corvettes avec l'Allemagne.

[Mani]

Israel Navy Chief In India

vidéo : http://video.in.msn.com/watch/video/israeli-navy-seeks-better-ties-with-india/fda0pk41

Indian Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Nirmal Verma receiving Vice Admiral Elizer Marom, Commander-in-Chief of the Israeli Navy at South Block, New Delhi.

Vice-Admiral Marom is slated to hold wide-ranging talks in the next few days for expanding strategic military ties.

The Israeli Navy chief is also expected to hold discussions with Defence Minister A.K Antony, Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor and Air Chief Marshal PV Naik.

Both US and Israel are eager to sell more and more military hardware and software to India. India, for instance, is already moving towards inking its largest-ever defence deal with US to acquire 10 C-17 Globemaster-III giant strategic airlift aircraft, each of which comes for over a whopping $220 million, as reported by TOI earlier.

[Philippe Top-Force]

http://www.israelvalley.com/edito/28124-israel-defense-la-marine-israelienne-des-ambitions-menacees

D’après le très sérieux Defense News, Berlin aurait renoncé au financement d’un important contrat avec la marine israélienne. Le magazine précise que l’accord, convenu il y a quelques mois pour un montant de 1,6 milliards de dollars, comprend la livraison d’un sixième sous-marin « Dolphin » à Israël, de même que deux navires de guerre de type « Meko ». A l’origine, l’Allemagne s’était pourtant engagée à financer un tiers de cette somme

Les nouvelles capacités de la marine israélienne

Cette affaire porte assurément un coup aux ambitions de la marine israélienne, qui se trouve pourtant en pleine phase de modernisation. Ainsi, en plus des trois corvettes « Sa’ar 5 » – dont la réception est prévu pour 2011 -, Tsahal tente à l’heure actuelle de bâtir une flotte de défense anti-aérienne véritablement unique au monde. Cette dernière entend s’appuyer notamment sur le missile mer-air Barak-8, capable d’intercepter toute sorte de cible dans un rayon de 70 kilomètres : drones, avions de chasse et roquettes.

L’acquisition de la frégate multi-rôle Meko CSL est étroitement liée à cette nouvelle stratégie. Celle-ci intègre d’abord toutes les dernières technologies des industries navales allemandes et européennes. Inspiré du A-100, ce navire modulable et furtif dispose aussi d’une envergure plus large, notamment au niveau de sa plate-forme. Il peut transporter jusqu’à 75 membres d’équipage, mesure 108 mètres de long et peut rester opérationnel en mer pendant 21 jours.

Pour Israël, le Meko CSL dispose d’un autre avantage majeur : son espace, qui facilite l’installation du radar MF-STAR, toujours en cours de développement chez Elta. Conçu pour les frégates de dernière génération, ce système de 7 tonnes assure un balayage électronique tridimensionnel tout autour du navire, à basse comme à haute altitude. Polyvalent, il intègre et active simultanément des systèmes d’attaque et de défense, offrant un bouclier imparable au navire.

[cvs]

http://www.israelvalley.com/edito/28124-israel-defense-la-marine-israelienne-des-ambitions-menacees

Je rajoute juste que les Emirats arabes unis (ou une société des EAU, je ne sais plus) sont devenus actionnaires des chantiers navals. Israël aurait reconsidéré les affaires en cours pour cette raison aussi.

[Clemor]

Trois sous marin pour 1.3 milliards US dollars payé à 1/3 par l'allemagne  :O  :O j'en apprend une sacré là... Je savais que les américains donnaient de l'argent à Israel pour acheter des armes, mais l'Allemagne....

[cvs]

Les israéliens pourraient construire leurs propres corvettes.

http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000584622&fid=1725

[g4lly]

http://nextnavy.com/hey-is-the-idf-integrating-the-submarine-fleet/

The IDF is facing a manning problem. According to Ha’aretz, the Israeli Defense Forces’ sub fleet is working to expand the submariner pipeline, growing from three sub teams to a total of ten.  Are women going to be a part of this new cadre?

Look, finding enough guys capable of completing the grueling training cycle is hard enough, but, as the IDF sub fleet grows to five hulls, trebling the IDF sub force is pretty much impossible without a new source of recruits. Which gets us to the image at the right, taken from the Ha’aretz story.  The sailor training in the background (working in the IDF’s sweet new “land-sub” training facility) is either sporting some unusually long-hair or…the sailor is a woman.

Think about that.  A woman in an IDF sub trainer.  Not that a single photo should stand as proof, but, why else would somebody be in a submarine trainer but to, well, be training to serve on a sub?

If the IDF sub force is integrating (a big “if”), it is wise to recall that the IDF isn’t integrating a big, relatively commodious boat.  The IDF’s modified U212 Dolphins are only about 2,000 tons, berthing a compliment of about thirty (give or take depending upon the mission at hand).  And, back in 2006, the sub commander had this to say:

   “The submarine was not built to accommodate both men and women. We are unable to allocate a special zone on the vessel for women dormitories. Why should we venture into something that has failed in a large part of the fleets in the world, where there is even more lenience on these issues?” he asked.

So, there we have it.  Lot to overcome if they’re gonna do it.  But there is little reason to have anybody hard at work in a sub trainer unless they, at some point, are going to serve aboard a boat.  Just sayin’.

Qui qui veut aller s'enfermer dans un sous marin avec tout un équipage de Tsahal girl 

[Chevalier Gilles]

Qui qui veut aller s'enfermer dans un sous marin avec tout un équipage de Tsahal girl 

plus d'un homme je crois... :happy: