Bientôt des avions russes dans l’armée de l’air.

[Francois5]

Le Figaro – 15/10/2005 – V.GD.

L’armée de l’air prévoit de remplacer ses avions de voltige aérienne, des Cap 232 datant de 1999, par des appareils du constructeur russe Sukhoï. Cet achat ne concernerait que deux Sukhoï 26 pour une somme relativement peu importante, mais cela constituerait une première dans la politique de l’armée de l’air.

Ca va faire plaisir aux excites de matos russe...

[Hitmoon]

Le Figaro – 15/10/2005 – V.GD.

L’armée de l’air prévoit de remplacer ses avions de voltige aérienne, des Cap 232 datant de 1999, par des appareils du constructeur russe Sukhoï. Cet achat ne concernerait que deux Sukhoï 26 pour une somme relativement peu importante, mais cela constituerait une première dans la politique de l’armée de l’air.

Ca va faire plaisir aux excites de matos russe...

aucun rapport entre le materiel militaire (Su-27 et variantes) et le Su-26 ...

je m'attendais à une énieme critique de ta part concernant le materiel russe, je t'en prie tu peut proceder ...

[Kovy]

Le su-26 est une tuerie en voltige... je connais 2 veinards de l'armée de l'air qui vont bien s'amuser avec ce monstre de puissance 8)

[Francois5]

aucun rapport entre le materiel militaire (Su-27 et variantes) et le Su-26 ...

je m'attendais à une énieme critique de ta part concernant le materiel russe, je t'en prie tu peut proceder ...

Je ne critique que ce que j'ai pu constater, ou les rapports que j'ai eu entre les mains.

De plus, si, il y a un rapport... le constructeur.

J'ai vu aussi ce que Sukhoi dit a propos de Dassault et des ses avions, et ca ne me donne pas envie de les aider.

Pour le Su-26, rien a dire so far... Mais bon, je coyais que ca pouvait interresser qqu'un ici.

pardon si je me suis trompe.

[Invité ZedroS]

Ca nous intéresse, pas de souci ;) Par contre qu'à dit Sukhoi à propos de Dassault ? Tu as des sources/liens ? Merci d'avance! ZedroS

[Francois5]

Desole, c'est MiG, mais c'est pareil, sont tous pareils.

Il y a pas mal de truc que l'on peut glaner, plus ou moins accessible a tout le monde, mais meme dans le grand publique, on trouve...

Par exemple ca :

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Info/Aircraft/Mirage-Bhavnani.html

It was the time of the early 80's when the PAF was acquiring the F-16s and IAF was still operating the lumbering Su-7s and Ajeets. By then the most advanced air defence fighter available to the IAF was the Soviet Union's MiG-23, which the latter considered to be a perfection in both ideological and technical solutions. In the months of 1985, tensions were high on both sides, as war-call was knocking the doors. It was at that time that IAF realised, they needed to equip themselves with something superior, or atleast equivalent to the PAF F-16s. The Russian MiG-29 hadn't entered the service of her own Air Force. It was then that IAF finally decided to acquire 40 Dassault-Brueget Mirage-2000H from France, and these aircraft stand at far superior position even today in the inventory of the IAF, than the recent Su-30k/MKI.

When the Mirages had just arrived at Maharajpur AFB (Gwalior), the evil curse of the Pakistanis worked. It had rained so heavily in the night that the cockpit of the aircraft was flooded with water, even though the canopy was locked! You could have seen the technicians emptying the cockpit with buckets. In its early days, when the base was just under construction, the Mirages faced slight difficulty in operating, but that was soon overcome with the french help.

What actually hurt most of the people was that this 'piece of @#%$' cost us 140 Crore Rupees. per piece whereas the same amount could have fetched you a 140 MiG-21s! Once the matter stabilized, the flyers started realising that this aircraft was much much beyond the scope of their present understanding. For them who had been previously flying something like the Hunters or Gnats, it seemed to be the 'purple UFO' they saw in their dreams last night! They soon realised that this aircraft was not only capable of some fancy flying, but it had the right technological and ideological solutions to their problems. When the aviators and the engineers sat down to study the aircraft in technological depth, the whole concept seemed to be revolutionary. From FBW flight control system and the hydraulics, each and every pair of nut and bolt embedded a mark of quality from the french. It was realised by many at far later stage during the kargil war.

It once happened that an engineer, who had previously worked on the Mirages, went to Russia regarding some matter. During a conversation he just drew the point of contrast between the Mirage 2000 and MiG-29B. It was rumoured that the men at Mikoyan-Gurevich were outraged and made comments like, "We have made more aircraft than the french and we know how much important it is to make a COST-EFFICIENT aircraft rather than the fancy toys that Dassault-Brueget makes! Our aircraft is simple to operate, has better performance and is equipped with elements that the french will probably need to invent first."

It is believed that the Indian officials were carried by this statement and decided to build the MiG-29s instead of the Mirages.

During joint operations between Jaguars and Mirages, the Jaguars would shy away in front of the deadly capability of the Mirage-2000. The FBW FCS gave it a leap forward in terms of handling at low altitudes and G-bump reduction. Mirages could make approaches towards the enemy which demanded intense maneuvers at low altitude.

The second encouraging factor is the cockpit of the mirage, which features the most sophisticated avionics. Though MiG-29 pilots missed their HMTDS while flying in the Mirage, they loved pressing the HUD buttons. eg. the MiG-29 features a very simplistic HUD and Radar Display. The voice warnings in the Mirage, though not that sweet as that of Natasha's in the MiG-29, were more status alerting. Even the Mirage Flight Mission Simulator is the most advanced in India.

During the Kargil war they played the most major role during high altitude bombing. Wg Cdr Nambiar (the one who took the pictures of LCA during its first flight) had something to say about his mission during the debriefing as he was briefed to fly the attack mission over Tiger Hill,

"When I made the first fly pass I didn't see anything anything in the snow, but still I tried hard to locate them. There were a lot of rocks and no sign of the infiltrators. Once again I made a final check, by flying across, and then I suddenly noticed a bright spot in my FLIR mode display, that I hadn't seen on my first pass. On zooming, I noticed it moving and disappearing near a rock. On visual recheck I inferred it was the hard bunker that I had been instructed to take out with my LGBs. It wasn't hard to illuminate using the LDP and the bomb hardly deviated half a metre or so and I guess I left none of them survived."

This guy was the one to drop 5 out of the total 8 LGBs used. On being asked about the performance of the mirage he said,

"It was my choice posting to come to Gwalior and serve here in Battle Axes and fly the Mirage2000."

Obviously, he couldn't have lived up with MiG-21 after flying F-16s in Israel.

Now to compare it with the Su-30s, Su-30, at present are more of a flying testbeds. I just happened to get a chance to sit in a Su-30K cockpit and believe me, it just had a few essential analog instruments and no MFD or Display. Though it did have a HUD, most of the components common even to the MiG-29 were missing. I relaxed when I learnt that it was under assembly. But the others weren't any better. They had the standard Su-27 panels and instruments, all marked in Russian.

One of the technicians spoke little bit english and told me that they would be soon assembling a Su-30MKI and I will love its cockpit. I'm gonna show you the picture that I took, but its layered with an existing image, just to keep the secret a secret. Then I had the chance to meet the head of the SU-30 tech flight dep. who himself had previously worked on Mirages. Most of the things he told me are of classified nature but to put a conclusion he declared that

"It was an honour to work on the mirages. The Su-30s still don't fly properly. Yesterday the engine of this one smoked out because of some reason I'm still unaware and we are investigating. Those from Air HQ do tell us that the final MKI's will be better. The FBW of these is not purely digital, as they still use mechanics to combine with the stick. Those of Mirages are 100% digital and the pilot's stick gives maneuverability demand info to the main processor. There are 16 parallel processors in the mirage as compared to one in this aircraft. Studying Mirage was highly complicated."

Desole, je n'invente rien, et je n'ai pas le temps de traduire.

J'ai un rapport a terminer.

[Invité ZedroS]

Pas de prob pour l'anglais. D'ailleurs je ne sous entendais pas que tu inventais quoique ce soit, c'est juste qu'avec des sources c'est toujours plus consistant ;) J'avais déjà lu l'article à propos, je ne le trouve pas bien méchant, venant d'un grand constructeur russe (qui comme les USA doivent souvent compter les Français comme négligeables...). Merci tout de même

[collectionneur]

Petite image de la béte :arrow:

Et que vont devenire les Cap qui n'ont méme pas 6 ans :?:

[Francois5]

Heu... c'est pas un modele reduit ta photo? Ya pas de pilote... LOL

[glitter]

Francois Dans l'intervie, c'est un gars de Mig et non pas Sukhoi

[Hip3rion]

Oui il a rectifié le tir :

Desole, c'est MiG, mais c'est pareil, sont tous pareils.

[collectionneur]

:shock: En effet :lol: Houps

[Hitmoon]

de toutes facons tout le monde pense que son appareil est meilleur que celui de l'autre, c'est pas parce que mig dit tout haut ce que les autres disent tout bas (dassault pense aussi que ses appareils sont meilleurs que mig mais ne le dit pas sur tout les toits) et puis c'est pas la peine de s'offusquer pour ca, à croire quetout le monde a des actions de dassault ou y travaille ...

[ALF]

Le su-26 est une tuerie en voltige... je connais 2 veinards de l'armée de l'air qui vont bien s'amuser avec ce monstre de puissance 8)

Ouaip, après ce qu'ils viennent de traverser :cry:

[ALF]

[apocalypse]

J'espère qu'il ne vont pas conserver cette jolie livrée "rose tapette" bien peu virile à mon goût. :D

[littleboy]

Sans parler de sa couleur, je dois dire que je le trouve quand meme particulierement moche...

[Kovy]

Vitesse max. 450 Km/h Vitesse de décrochage 110 Km/h :shock: Taux de roulis 400 °/s :shock: Facteur de charges max +12 / -8 g :shock: mamamia, faut pas avoir le mal de l'air !! :lol:

[Hitmoon]

cet appareil peut rester en sustentation en l'air comme un helicoptere vu la surpuissance de son moteur par rapport au poid de l'appareil ;)

[Francois5]

de toutes facons tout le monde pense que son appareil est meilleur que celui de l'autre, c'est pas parce que mig dit tout haut ce que les autres disent tout bas (dassault pense aussi que ses appareils sont meilleurs que mig mais ne le dit pas sur tout les toits)

et puis c'est pas la peine de s'offusquer pour ca, à croire quetout le monde a des actions de dassault ou y travaille ...

Oauis, t'as raison, sauf quand ils annoncent ca alors que les indiens ont les moyens de comparer.

D'ou le MkI, qui est tellement modifie qu'il est plus indo-europeen que russe aujourd'hui. Ils ont pris les lecons des M-2000 qu'ils ont fait applique a une cellule somme toute pas tres chere a fabriquer.

Ca reste un compromis, prenons cette dreniere phrase :

"It was an honour to work on the mirages. The Su-30s still don't fly properly. Yesterday the engine of this one smoked out because of some reason I'm still unaware and we are investigating. Those from Air HQ do tell us that the final MKI's will be better. The FBW of these is not purely digital, as they still use mechanics to combine with the stick. Those of Mirages are 100% digital and the pilot's stick gives maneuverability demand info to the main processor. There are 16 parallel processors in the mirage as compared to one in this aircraft. Studying Mirage was highly complicated."

[boba_fett]

Justement le SU-30MKI des hindous a de l'electronique israelienne et...française... :rolleyes:...de toute façons c'est tres classique ce genre de commentaires ultra critiques sur la concurrence, c'est toujours comme ça quand y'a du fric en jeux...ils vont pas dire que Dassault fait des bons avions a des probables clients de produits russes, ça serait comme se tirer une balle dans le pied...et le hindous ils sont pas cons, ils connaissent tres biens les capacités de produits Dassault comme le tres aprecié M2000 de leur armée de l'air, ils vont pas tout gober comme des poires ;)

[Hitmoon]

en parlant de l'armée de l'air indienne, y'a encore un mig-21 qui s'est crasher :lol: :lol: :lol: le pilote s'est ejecté en voyant qu'il n'y avait plus rien à faire

[Kovy]

je ne vois pas ce qu'il y a de drole :?

[Hip3rion]

C'est quand ils veulent ils mettent a la casse leur cerceuils volants .... Ou bien ce sont les mécanos indiens qui savent pas s'en occuper. (j'opte pour la 1 hypothese à savoir le mig-21 a fait son temps... :? )