Armée de l'air Chinoise

[Berkut]

normalement le WS10-A est la copie quasi conforme de l'AL-31F monté en Chine avec des matériaux chinois. Plus lourd, je ne pense donc pas ou alors ce doit être assez négligeable.

je suis plus d'avis que c'est une photo durant une maintenance donc élément dévissé, si c'était flingué par des contraintes, on pourrait remarquer que la tôle est gondolée ou voilée ce qui n'est pas le cas. Sûrement une trappe d'accès

[xav]

So they should all switch to using rivets? How do you propose to remove the access panels? Drill out rivet heads?

Fasteners have to be used in some manner to gain access to the major sub assemblies inside the fuselage. Their choice of button head screws instead of counter-sunk screws is curious though.

As for the picture of the underside of the aircraft with the Zeus fasteners hanging out, that is normal, they are self-retained quarterturn fasteners that are attached to the panel for quick access.

You guys should read up on aerospace construction methods before you spout off.

As a maintainer with 5 years of experience DesertPilot and Ordie have hit it on the head. Things that need to be replaced are often accessible only AFTER something else is taken out, hence the need for numerous accessible panels. Think about how many man-hours it would take if there were only a handful of panels. Something needs to be replaced, but then only Panel X is closest and you have to take out the wire bundles, loosen this, etc. USAF maintainers are excellent at making sure the screw are tightened, plus they have pre-flights.

Aircraft are huge and as DP said, there is a lot of necessary crap under those panels. Wire bundles, spars, room for landing gear, etc.

USAF fighters have different phase schedules. 200 hour phases are where the jet isn't taken apart too much, but 400 hour phases are where most of the jet is on the racks and getting serviced/inspected. USAF jets aren't painted every phase, but everytime they go into depot maintenance. Heavies is a whole other story so ask Crewdawg...

[Patrick]

As for the picture of the underside of the aircraft with the Zeus fasteners hanging out, that is normal, they are self-retained quarterturn fasteners that are attached to the panel for quick access.

Merci Xav, tout s'explique. ;)

C'est même plutôt pas mal comme solution technique en fait ^-^

[T800]

PAF to acquire 36 combat aircraft from China: PAF chief

Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood says 5th generation aircraft will provide an extra punch to PAF

ISLAMABAD: Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmad on Wednesday said 36 high-tech combat aircraft (FC-20) would be inducted into the PAF fleet by 2010.

The 21st Century fifth generation aircraft are of Chinese origin and would provide an extra punch to the air force, he said while answering questions after a briefing to the visiting participants of the National Media Workshop being organised by the National Defence University at the Air Headquarters.

He said that modalities were being discussed to acquire two squadrons of the aircraft for the PAF. He said the FC-20 aircraft had been selected after hectic and lengthy deliberations besides considering a long list of the similar category aircraft of various origins. The engine of the aircraft would be manufactured by Russia with the most modern reverse technology, he said.

The air chief said the first squadron of the indigenously developed fighter aircraft JF-17 (Thunder) would be inducted into the PAF fleet in the first quarter of 2009, enhancing agility of the air force and increasing its reach beyond 350 nautical miles.

He said after laborious efforts, the PAF had also acquired night-war capability, due to which the countrys defence had been made further impregnable. This capability has brought the PAF among a few air forces around the globe, which have the ability to carry out war operations during night times.

This capability had become imperative to be achieved, especially in the prevailing global and regional situations, the PAF chief said. He said the roll-out of the first batch of the F-16 (C&D) aircraft for Pakistan would be held in the USA in January next, where he himself would be present to witness the auspicious occasion.

The US would supply an improved version of the F-16 aircraft to be inducted into the PAF by 2010. In the surveillance field, he said, a Swedish company would supply three SAAB surveillance aircraft to the PAF by September next year, while contract for acquiring four AWACS systems from China had already been signed.

He said despite economic constraints, all the important programmes of the PAF were being run uninterrupted with the aim to make it a real force to meet the challenges.Air Chief Marshal Tanvir said the UAV technology was achieved earlier and drones were being manufactured indigenously. Earlier, the participants were given a detailed briefing by the vice chief of the air staff. Senior officers of the PAF and the National Defence University were also present.

http://www.thenews.com.pk

[T800]

les Russes n'ont apparement jamais entendu parlé du J 11

Russie-Chine: donner un "coup de fouet" à la coopération militaire (Sukhoi)

09:14 | 10/ 12/ 2008

 

PEKIN, 10 décembre - RIA Novosti. La 13e réunion de la commission intergouvernementale russo-chinoise pour la coopération militaire et technique témoigne de la volonté des deux pays de sortir de la stagnation qui règne dans ce domaine depuis plusieurs années, a annoncé mercredi à Pékin le PDG de Sukhoi, Mikhaïl Pogossian.

"La Chine est désormais l'un des principaux consommateurs d'équipement militaire russe: actuellement, plus de 200 chasseurs Su-27 et Su-30 sont en service au sein des forces aériennes chinoises", a commenté M. Pogossian, qui accompagne en Chine le ministre russe de la Défense, Anatoli Serdioukov, en vue de la réunion qui se tiendra jeudi.

Selon lui, la commission examinera des questions liées à l'utilisation des appareils russes par l'armée chinoise et l'élargissement de la coopération dans cette sphère.

"La commission se penchera notamment sur l'octroi d'une licence de production des appareils Su-27 et Su-30 à la Chine, ainsi que sur des projets à fort potentiel d'avenir et le service après-vente de l'équipement aérien", a-t-il poursuivi.

La dernière réunion de la commission de coopération militaire remonte à 2005.

"Nous espérons que la réunion de jeudi donnera un coup de fouet au développement de notre coopération, aussi bien pour l'aboutissement des contrats déjà existants qu'en vue du lancement de nouveaux projets", a-t-il conclu.

[Kiriyama]

Ceci dit un gunship pour la Chine, pourquoi pas ? C'est un appareil très utile.

[Hitmoon]

cte fake !!  :lol:

Ca saute aux yeux, vraiment n'importe quoi !!

[xav]

On avait deja un fil de discussion "Future avion Chinois" ou on avait toutes les news (et fakes) d'avions chinois...

Pourquoi en ouvrir un autre?

[xav]

by Andrei Chang

Hong Kong (UPI) Dec 10, 2008

The People's Republic of China has been sending military personnel to the former Soviet republic of Ukraine to learn how the country trains its aircraft carrier pilots, in preparation for the aircraft carrier battle group it eventually plans to build.

According to a source in the Ukrainian military industry, China first sent a large naval delegation, headed by the deputy chief of the People's Liberation Army navy, to visit the Ukrainian navy aviation force training centers in the southern port cities of Odessa and Sevastopol in October 2006.

The Chinese visited the Research Test and Flying Training Center at Nitka on the Crimean peninsula, and the two sides discussed the possibility of Ukraine helping to train China's navy aviation force and aircraft carrier pilots, the source said. Since then, Chinese engineers, pilots and naval technical experts have made frequent visits to Nitka.

The focus of much of China's current military cooperation with the Russian Federation and Ukraine is on producing large aircraft and an aircraft carrier. Ukraine has provided China with a prototype of its T-10K shipborne fighter. By dissecting the T-10K -- an earlier variant of the Sukhoi Su-33 fighter -- China hopes to acquire the capability to independently develop its own shipborne fighters.

The single T-10K that China purchased from Ukraine originally was based at the Nitka center, which is equipped with a range of simulators to train pilots in jump takeoffs, arresting landings and contingency responses. The training modules simulate the release of the arresting hook on takeoff and its use on landing at a speed of 155 miles per hour.

The Nitka center previously trained a generation of Soviet pilots on the Sukhoi Su-33 and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K fighters. Now the 297th Fighter Regiment of the Russian navy aviation force is undergoing training there.

As this author reported earlier for United Press International, China has imported four sets of aircraft carrier landing assistance equipment and arresting hooks. The Chinese are in the process of building their own aircraft carrier training base, which is why they have been so keenly interested in Nitka's simulators, training software, management procedures and technologies.

The training of aircraft carrier fighter pilots is a crucial step in putting together an aircraft carrier fleet. The training program is extremely harsh. According to the Ukrainian source, the most basic training for short-distance takeoffs, landings and ski-jumps would take at least six months.

Ukraine was once the main training center for the Soviet Union's aircraft carrier fighter pilots. It now intends to train navy pilots not only for China but also for India and other countries that aspire to possess aircraft carriers, a source from Nitka told United Press International.

The Indian navy is in the process of purchasing an aircraft carrier from Russia, as well as Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29UBK fighters, the first batch of which is expected to be delivered to India by the end of the year -- already a year later than scheduled. The pilots for those fighters most likely will be trained at Nitka.

China's dealings with Ukraine reconfirm that the People's Liberation Army navy is moving forward on its aircraft carrier project. The Chinese carrier apparently is based on a Russian design; otherwise China would not be interested in Ukraine's simulators. This means China's aircraft carrier very likely will adopt the Russian methods of ski-jump takeoff and landing.

China has also taken practical steps to build an aircraft carrier training base. The first step is to train shipborne fighter pilots at this base, followed by basic short-distance takeoff and landing training on the disabled Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag that China purchased in 1998.

Sources from the Ukrainian military industry have confirmed to United Press International on several occasions that the Varyag is unlikely to be restored to an operational fighter aircraft carrier, and most likely will be used only as a training platform.

Although the ship was purchased by a Hong Kong company ostensibly to be converted into a casino, Ukrainian sources told United Press International that they were aware of China's intentions from the beginning to use it for military purposes. The aircraft carrier, repainted with the colors of the PLA navy, is now in the Chinese port city of Dalian.

-- (Andrei Chang is editor in chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto.)

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Analysis_Ukraine_aids_China_carrier_plan_999.html

[T800]

le SU 33 KUB n'a pas été perdu pour tous le monde

China building it's own "Nitka" training carrier facility

The People's Republic of China has been sending military personnel to the former Soviet republic of Ukraine to learn how the country trains its aircraft carrier pilots, in preparation for the aircraft carrier battle group it eventually plans to build.

According to a source in the Ukrainian military industry, China first sent a large naval delegation, headed by the deputy chief of the People's Liberation Army navy, to visit the Ukrainian navy aviation force training centers in the southern port cities of Odessa and Sevastopol in October 2006.

The Chinese visited the Research Test and Flying Training Center at Nitka on the Crimean peninsula, and the two sides discussed the possibility of Ukraine helping to train China's navy aviation force and aircraft carrier pilots, the source said. Since then, Chinese engineers, pilots and naval technical experts have made frequent visits to Nitka.

The focus of much of China's current military cooperation with the Russian Federation and Ukraine is on producing large aircraft and an aircraft carrier. Ukraine has provided China with a prototype of its T-10K shipborne fighter. By dissecting the T-10K -- an earlier variant of the Sukhoi Su-33 fighter -- China hopes to acquire the capability to independently develop its own shipborne fighters.

The single T-10K that China purchased from Ukraine originally was based at the Nitka center, which is equipped with a range of simulators to train pilots in jump takeoffs, arresting landings and contingency responses. The training modules simulate the release of the arresting hook on takeoff and its use on landing at a speed of 155 miles per hour.

The Nitka center previously trained a generation of Soviet pilots on the Sukhoi Su-33 and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K fighters. Now the 297th Fighter Regiment of the Russian navy aviation force is undergoing training there.

As this author reported earlier for United Press International, China has imported four sets of aircraft carrier landing assistance equipment and arresting hooks. The Chinese are in the process of building their own aircraft carrier training base, which is why they have been so keenly interested in Nitka's simulators, training software, management procedures and technologies.

The training of aircraft carrier fighter pilots is a crucial step in putting together an aircraft carrier fleet. The training program is extremely harsh. According to the Ukrainian source, the most basic training for short-distance takeoffs, landings and ski-jumps would take at least six months.

Ukraine was once the main training center for the Soviet Union's aircraft carrier fighter pilots. It now intends to train navy pilots not only for China but also for India and other countries that aspire to possess aircraft carriers, a source from Nitka told United Press International.

The Indian navy is in the process of purchasing an aircraft carrier from Russia, as well as Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29UBK fighters, the first batch of which is expected to be delivered to India by the end of the year -- already a year later than scheduled. The pilots for those fighters most likely will be trained at Nitka.

China's dealings with Ukraine reconfirm that the People's Liberation Army navy is moving forward on its aircraft carrier project. The Chinese carrier apparently is based on a Russian design; otherwise China would not be interested in Ukraine's simulators. This means China's aircraft carrier very likely will adopt the Russian methods of ski-jump takeoff and landing.

China has also taken practical steps to build an aircraft carrier training base. The first step is to train shipborne fighter pilots at this base, followed by basic short-distance takeoff and landing training on the disabled Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag that China purchased in 1998.

Sources from the Ukrainian military industry have confirmed to United Press International on several occasions that the Varyag is unlikely to be restored to an operational fighter aircraft carrier, and most likely will be used only as a training platform.

Although the ship was purchased by a Hong Kong company ostensibly to be converted into a casino, Ukrainian sources told United Press International that they were aware of China's intentions from the beginning to use it for military purposes. The aircraft carrier, repainted with the colors of the PLA navy, is now in the Chinese port city of Dalian.

-- (Andrei Chang is editor in chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto.)

http://www.spacewar.com

[xav]

Non mais c'est une blague la!

Non seulement je previen que c'est topic doublon, mais en plus on repost ce que j'ai poster quelques minutes avant: http://www.air-defense.net/Forum_AD/index.php?topic=9981.390

[flanker]

by Andrei Chang

Hong Kong (UPI) Dec 10, 2008

The People's Republic of China has been sending military personnel to the former Soviet republic of Ukraine to learn how the country trains its aircraft carrier pilots, in preparation for the aircraft carrier battle group it eventually plans to build.

According to a source in the Ukrainian military industry, China first sent a large naval delegation, headed by the deputy chief of the People's Liberation Army navy, to visit the Ukrainian navy aviation force training centers in the southern port cities of Odessa and Sevastopol in October 2006.

The Chinese visited the Research Test and Flying Training Center at Nitka on the Crimean peninsula, and the two sides discussed the possibility of Ukraine helping to train China's navy aviation force and aircraft carrier pilots, the source said. Since then, Chinese engineers, pilots and naval technical experts have made frequent visits to Nitka.

L'Ukraine qui propose d'aider aux qualifs d'appontage et décollage avec une base qu'elle n'a jamais opéré directement et n'ayant strictement aucun groupe aérien embarqué. Je suis curieux de voir ça  =D

The focus of much of China's current military cooperation with the Russian Federation and Ukraine is on producing large aircraft and an aircraft carrier. Ukraine has provided China with a prototype of its T-10K shipborne fighter. By dissecting the T-10K -- an earlier variant of the Sukhoi Su-33 fighter -- China hopes to acquire the capability to independently develop its own shipborne fighters.

Tiens, après les Kh-55 et le Varyag, l'Ukraine est encore en train d'essayer de monnayer un reste de l'ère soviétique à la Chine.   :O

The single T-10K that China purchased from Ukraine originally was based at the Nitka center, which is equipped with a range of simulators to train pilots in jump takeoffs, arresting landings and contingency responses. The training modules simulate the release of the arresting hook on takeoff and its use on landing at a speed of 155 miles per hour.

The Nitka center previously trained a generation of Soviet pilots on the Sukhoi Su-33 and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K fighters. Now the 297th Fighter Regiment of the Russian navy aviation force is undergoing training there.

Now les pilotes de l'aéronavale russe se cassent à Eysk où ils construisent de nouvelles installations parce qu'ils en ont plein le *** des crosses que n'arrêtent pas de leur faire l'Ukraine  >:(

As this author reported earlier for United Press International, China has imported four sets of aircraft carrier landing assistance equipment and arresting hooks. The Chinese are in the process of building their own aircraft carrier training base, which is why they have been so keenly interested in Nitka's simulators, training software, management procedures and technologies.

The training of aircraft carrier fighter pilots is a crucial step in putting together an aircraft carrier fleet. The training program is extremely harsh. According to the Ukrainian source, the most basic training for short-distance takeoffs, landings and ski-jumps would take at least six months.

Ukraine was once the main training center for the Soviet Union's aircraft carrier fighter pilots. It now intends to train navy pilots not only for China but also for India and other countries that aspire to possess aircraft carriers, a source from Nitka told United Press International.

The Indian navy is in the process of purchasing an aircraft carrier from Russia, as well as Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29K and Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29UBK fighters, the first batch of which is expected to be delivered to India by the end of the year -- already a year later than scheduled. The pilots for those fighters most likely will be trained at Nitka.

China's dealings with Ukraine reconfirm that the People's Liberation Army navy is moving forward on its aircraft carrier project. The Chinese carrier apparently is based on a Russian design; otherwise China would not be interested in Ukraine's simulators. This means China's aircraft carrier very likely will adopt the Russian methods of ski-jump takeoff and landing.

China has also taken practical steps to build an aircraft carrier training base. The first step is to train shipborne fighter pilots at this base, followed by basic short-distance takeoff and landing training on the disabled Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag that China purchased in 1998.

Sources from the Ukrainian military industry have confirmed to United Press International on several occasions that the Varyag is unlikely to be restored to an operational fighter aircraft carrier, and most likely will be used only as a training platform.

Although the ship was purchased by a Hong Kong company ostensibly to be converted into a casino, Ukrainian sources told United Press International that they were aware of China's intentions from the beginning to use it for military purposes. The aircraft carrier, repainted with the colors of the PLA navy, is now in the Chinese port city of Dalian.

-- (Andrei Chang is editor in chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto.)

[xav]

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2008/12/nited-warriors-first-plaaf-in-command.html

Ils font de gros progres en comandement centralise et fusion de donnees

[Berkut]

De manière générale on peut dire que l'armée populaire de Chine fait des pas de géants pour combler son retard, passant d'une armée de type soviétique piétaille chair à canon à une armée plus moderne et  réactive mais parfois j'ai peur que cela se fasse au détriment de l'appropriation de tous les concepts que cela sous entend. On a toujours des dinosaures de la guerre froide en poste et complètement dépassés par les méthodes actuelles, idem pour les mentalités. Les changements sont encore plus vertigineux que dans l'armée russe

[Zamorana]

L'arme chinoise conservera ses réservistes pléthoriques, et sa doctrine de guerre populaire défensive, au cas ou. Mais l'armée professionnelle, elle se rapproche en doctrine et efficacité, des nôtres.

[zx]

un article sur le J10,

un hybride entre mirage et eurofigthers, gloops !

http://www.aeronautics.ru/news/news002/news095.htm

[T800]

premières image du HQ 9 Long Range SAM System, la Tuaf serait sur les rang pour etre le premier client export de ce système AA

URL=http://imageshack.us]

The HQ-9 is a long-range surface-to-air missile intended to counter a wide spectrum of airborne threats such as supersonic aircraft, helicopters cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). It was designed by the China Academy of Defence Technology to counter targets at ranges of up to 200 kilometers and altitudes of up to 30,000 meters. The HQ-9 missile is utilized by a mobile ground-based air defense known as HQ-9A and its naval version which is being provided to surface combatants.

The HQ-9 missile development started in the 1980s and leverages features from both the Patriot and S-300 surface-to-air missiles. The HQ-9 has a track-via-missile terminal guidance system and proximity fuze taken from the Patriot and 'cold-launch' and aerodynamics from tube-launched S-300 missiles. Cold launch means the missile's rocket engine ignites after the missile has been ejected from its launch tube. In comparison, Western vertically launched missiles ignite inside the launch tube which requires sophisticated pipelines to evacuate the exhaust gas.

The FT-2000 is a proposed version designed to counter airborne radar emitters such as E-3 AWACS. To do so, the FT-2000 is equipped with a passive radar seeker that tracks radar emissions from EW aircrafts. Both missiles, HQ-9 and FT-2000, may be promoted to the export market. The People's Liberation Army (PLA) first deployed the HQ-9 missile in 1997. The HQ-9 along with the S-300 missile systems are the successors to the PLA's aging HQ-2/SA-2 Guideline air defense systems.

internet pour l'image et sinodefence pour le texte

[Berkut]

Si je ne me plante pas le HQ9 c'est juste un PMU, ça ne changera pas la donne pour la Turquie avec un système hybride US/"Russe" qui n'est pas vraiment compatible

[Zamorana]

Le prix doit être attractif je suppose.

[semper_fidelis]

y avait pas eu une historie de refus de la vente du système S300 ? La Turquie voulait en acheter pour entraîner ses pilotes ou je ne sais qui mais la Russie a refusé et c'est peut-être pour ça que la Turquie se tourne vers la Chine qui a décidé de commercialiser ce système...

[Invité barbaros pacha]

y avait pas eu une historie de refus de la vente du système S300 ? La Turquie voulait en acheter pour entraîner ses pilotes ou je ne sais qui mais la Russie a refusé et c'est peut-être pour ça que la Turquie se tourne vers la Chine qui a décidé de commercialiser ce système...

Non la Turquie va acquérir des S-300 a l'Ukraine et a la Biélorussie pour l'entraînement des pilotes Turques dans le but et de simulé une attaque de la Tuaf sur des AA de type S-300 et afin de développé des systèmes de contre mesures efficace...

Pour l'achat du HQ-9 par la Turquie, cela reste une option, si il devrait avoir achat par la Tuaf, les Chinois vont transférer la technologie de ses systèmes AA a la Turquie, je pense que la Turquie sera plus intéressé par un transfert de technologie que par un achat du HQ-9...

[xav]

Vu sur le WAFF

"Chinese Military Aviation", which is probably one of the best if not the best english based open source website on Chinese aviation matters.........interesting none the less.

J-13 (J-15?) is the first generation of Chinese shipborne fighter aircraft being developed by both 601 Institute and SAC for PLAN's first aircraft carrier. It was speculated originally that the aircraft would be based on J-11B (as J-11BJ, see above). However recent evidence suggested that J-13 is very likely to be a new semi-stealth design. The twin-engine heavy fighter design might have benefited from a similar but more advanced stealth design developed between 1990 and 2000 by SAC/601 Institute to compete for the J-14 project (see below). It might also have benefited from the development of J-11B, such as similar radar and electronic systems as well as the improved WS-10A turbofan engine. Some key shipborne aircraft technologies such as landing/navigational systems are believed to be based on Russian Su-33 and were bought from Russia and Ukraine. Overall J-13 is believed to be in the same class of American F/A-18E. Some parts of J-13 such as landing gear have already been manufactured. The first prototype is projected to fly within 2-4 years.

En gros, le "futur avion chinois embarquer" comparabe a un F18E d'apres une revue sur l'aviation chinoise en Anglais.

J13

J14

[T800]

Vu sur le WAFF

En gros, le "futur avion chinois embarquer" comparabe a un F18E d'apres une revue sur l'aviation chinoise en Anglais.

J13

J14

deja posté dans le thread sur la marine chinoise

[Berkut]

toujours ce dilemme entre aviation et marine pour les appareils embarqués :lol: Allez, je pardonne.

[T800]

[url=http://imageshack.us][/url

]J-10 Fighter: Improved Version First Flight in China

(NSI News Source Info) Chengdu - December 31, 2008: Several eyewitnesses in Chengdu city prove that a greatly improved J-10 fighter makes its first flight from CAC (Chengdu Aircraft Corporation) internal airport in Huang Tianba.

Some spectators say that the eyeable improvements include a DSI inlet, Forward Looking Infra Red (FLIR) Pod and Tail Wing-tip Integrated Electrical Avionics. Besides, some Internet resources claim that new J-10 has equipped with high-performance AESA radar, modified wing inner structure and stealth in-board pylons. The engine is still the Russian AL-31F, which will be replaced by FADEC AL-31FM3 for better air performance. But China’s WS-10 engine also has opportunity.

The flight lasts about 10 minutes and the test pilot is believed to be Liang Wanjun (梁万俊).

Although closing to 3.5th+ generation fighters like Typhoon and Rafael, how many new J-10 fighters will be purchansed by PLA Air Force is still one question, because CAC and SAC have entered the drastic competition for PLA’s 5th generation fighter. There always a rumar that CAC will provide prototype fighter before 2012