Napoleons_Bee

not what I heard, but thats fine. so its lost 1.

I remember when they "didn't want" the Super Hornet either. Speaking of the Super hornet that line as expected to close by 2017, and yet here it is. F-35 line will be going for years and orders will come and go. Thats very possible. One could look at the Rafale and say the same thing. It does a lot, and has big shoes to fill. I'm sure Typhoon fans say the Navy ruined the Rafale. or something. I don't even know if the Typhoon has fans

I apologize as I am indeed working through a translator, and no I am not declaring victory early. I am only reacting to what is being said, and what is being leaked. You are correct. one foot step at a time. What does this say for the Rafale in india? or do we acknowledge that things are complicated? I see Japan actually increased their order as well. so what are we to make of this? the Rules don't seem very consistent.

indeed, but the evaluation is horrific if reports are to be believed. this is an IF. of course. I reserve the right to be wrong. and I will admit it to be so when and if that time comes. however if the results do find F-35 to be both best, and least expensive, then I don't know what that means for others in other contests. I am not trying to be ugly or nasty. I am just not surprised when something like 12 nations pick F-35, and then that begins 13 nations. thats not exactly a massive shock to me.

I was invited here by herciv, I didn't even plan on posting today, but then this news hit. and seeing as what took place on F-16.net, don't be surprised if you do indeed have some people coming here to ask "who won on cost and performance" Defectors? f-16.net won what are they running from? it would seem the "Defectors" will be the Rafale raiders that were just humiliated today returning with embarrassed red cheeks. I am simply here to observe and record my observations. I am not surprised. but many others are. I have seen this before many times

sure why not? I'll agree and then I'll wonder why it was not more easily defeated. This is very much like a woman complaining about the man she used to date being "the biggest loser in the world" oh indeed, and you dated him "if he is such an inferior specimen my friend, why is he beating you?" I am not surprised by this decision as it lines up with what many other nations have found. We can cry and make excuses, but I am not surprised by it. The F-35 has "lost" only once, in south korea to the F-15. they found F-35 to superior, but the F-35 exceeded cost. and then they adjust the price limit and picked the F-35. its the worst thing in the world that everyone is buying. At one point maybe the observations, reach the brain. ego is a powerful thing. the brain will launch many counterattacks to protect itself. as my old sports coach use to say "if they suck, then you must double suck-- because they are beating you "

I am surprised by your surprise

its a very interesting perspective that the F-35 which won on cost and performance would be concerned about "Saving face". It would seem the aircraft that did not win should be concerned about "face saving" and the people or government groups coming to their rescue via political process by picking european not based on cost or performance, but bias and preference would be the ones "saving face". they lost but got picked still luckily. typically winners don't need to "save face" its the people who lose or are embarrassed that need to save face And if they wanted to orchestrate results, why not just say they found a European option to be the winner, and then pick the winner and buy European? done in one step. why the theater to say the F-35 is best? and then not pick it? I would rather not be picked than found to be insufficient publicly and picked. this is going to hurt Rafale and Typhoon down the road. Its better have things remain murky. In fact its better to lose and blame politics, rather than cost and performance shortcomings being brought out in public. What does this mean for Finland? or Canada? F-35 has yet to lose a tender, with the exception of south Korea that then bought it anyway, based on what they saw. They actually moved the price cap in order to acquire it. How can Rafale win in Finland now? or how can F-35 lose in Canada? They would have to directly find the exact opposite of what Switzerland just confirmed today. its Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon that should be concerned about Saving face, because they were just found to be behind F-35. again. What are Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon going to do to "save face" now? appeal to the people to pay more and get less in Switzerland? the onus is now on the "not winning" machines to save face. or don't. pretend it didn't happen and then act surprised when they other nations find out the Swiss evaluation was what they found as well. once upon a time people said the F-35 wasn't as good. Then it got better and they said "that is alright, because we are less expensive" well it looks like now that is no longer the case either. If Rafale, Typhoon, Super Hornet, and Gripen can't beat F-35 on cost or performance, then I have some bad news. The only way they can win, is if the F-35 loses. Its the F-35s race to lose. it is ahead. I don't think Finland or Canada are going to have different evaluation results on cost or performance than Switzerland says. that Korea says. That Australia says, that Denmark says. Does anyone else think that? Canada and Finland will magically find completely different results than all the other F-35 nations?