Rafale and other european jets [English only]

[Hort]

 

Is this guy in the video saying that India should wait for F4 version or that India should purchase another aircraft ?

[wagdoox]

il y a 20 minutes, Hort a dit :

Is this guy in the video saying that India should wait for F4 version or that India should purchase another aircraft ?

they still don't understand that even current Indian rafale will easily be updated to F4.2 (except for GaN).

Il y a 17 heures, DrSomnath999 a dit :

we indians can integrate anything

you need the codes for software integration, france is ok to share them with India but not with russia or any 3 party that's why the meteor sail was refused on the tejas with Israeli radar. IR missile is less sensitive since the missile and the radar do not have to talk to each other, plus the SU30MKI has some French avionics. 
I strongly doubt meteor will ever be on any other plane then rafale (M2K technically make no sense). If Tejas switches to a European radar for sure, if Indian good probability.  

[Hort]

Il y a 1 heure, wagdoox a dit :

they still don't understand that even current Indian rafale will easily be updated to F4.2 (except for GaN)

I'm wondering if that's due to real and honest confusion, or if that's to create confusion in order to generate clicks or, worse, to counter Dassault's bird (we all know french and India mil partnership is not quite a Joy for others foreign lobbies).

To put it in a nutshell " Look indian people ! France is fooling India as we don't have Raf 4 but only 3 ! Then, let's buy something else coz we're no stupid", and making a lot of noise around that. 

Il y a 1 heure, wagdoox a dit :

will easily be updated to F4.2 (except for GaN).

Does that mean India will not have GaN ?

[wagdoox]

il y a 2 minutes, Hort a dit :

I'm wondering if that's due to real and honest confusion, or if that's to create confusion in order to generate clicks or, worse, to counter Dassault's bird (we all know french and India mil partnership is not quite a Joy for others foreign lobbies).

To put it in a nutshell " Look indian people ! France is fooling India as we don't have Raf 4 but only 3 ! Then, let's buy something else coz we're no stupid", and making a lot of noise around that. 

Does that mean India will not have GaN ?

I don't think it's said or understood like that, India has right now a better version then the French. Indian Rafale are not F3R, they are more advance. 
French people let's buy something else, repay for all the logistics, training, weaponry ... to get an other more expensive, less capable plane, because we are no stupid ! 
All rafale should be F7 even those build in 2000. 
We continue to upgrade the rafale (that's a good sign for everyone), the Indian version is ready for but not fitted with, it will be when france will get it.

the current antennas of the current Indian rafale are GaaS, if India wants to switch it's need to buy the new antennas.

F4.2 will have spectra's antenna in GaN and the T5 will (probably) get GaN radar so if India want those, yes they need to wait until 2025.
But then in 2030, we will have new engines and new RAM so may be India should wait until 2030
but then in 2035 we will have Death Star laser weapon so... wait until 2035 and then in 2040, what ? i'm being told India hasn't introduced new fighter for 15 years and is now Chinese...

India will most likely always have access to the best france can offer (nuck appart) but we can't sell stuff we don't have yet.
So yet India will be able to buy it when available, the question is can India wait any longer ?
 

[Hort]

Citation

But then in 2030, we will have new engines

Didn't know new engines were already confirmed

[Lordtemplar]

1 minute ago, Hort said:

Didn't know new engines were already confirmed

I think he was being sarcastic ;)  it's a recurring joke on this this site about M88 with 90kn.  It is possible according to Safran, the initial design took this potential upgrade into account.  But it has never been a real consideration to do this since there is no real requirement for it.  So unless the french military requirements change or some other country wants to pay for the development, i don't think this will happen.

So i seriously doubt Safran is working on new engine for Rafale, since it is now working with MTU on preliminary studies for 6th gen franco-german fighter engines.

[Hort]

il y a 13 minutes, Lordtemplar a dit :

I think he was being sarcastic ;)

Yes, but i read it like an indian, taking a simple joke for an already promised enhancement.

Hopefully this new engine will have reverse gear 

[Lordtemplar]

6 hours ago, Hort said:

Yes, but i read it like an indian, taking a simple joke for an already promised enhancement.

Hopefully this new engine will have reverse gear 

It is french so it will have 7 reverse gears

Has India ordered the baguette dispenser option?

[Bon Plan]

Le 19/08/2020 à 10:41, Kelkin a dit :

Eh? They integrated the MICA on a Sukhoi? When did that happen?

very surprising.  Not to say near impossible....

[DrSomnath999]

Rafale: the F4 standard is revealed

June 2, 2020

 

In January 2019, when the first Rafale to the F3R standard arrived in the Air Force, the Minister of the Armed Forces took advantage of a visit to the Dassault Aviation plant in Mérignac to officially launch the development of a new standard. major, the F4. Enough to allow the aircraft to increase its operational performance, but also to remain competitive in the years to come, especially against the Lockheed Martin F ‑ 35.

On the F3R standard, the latest to date for the Rafale, efforts have mainly focused on updating the software and improving the sensors and armaments: AESA antenna for the RBE2 radar; integration of the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile; new TALIOS laser designation pod (Targeting Long-range Identification Optronic System); integration of GBU ‑ 16 and AASM Bk.3 bombs. With the F4 standard, the idea this time is to focus on issues of connectivity and network combat, which implies profound changes in both software and hardware. And, for the first time, the perfect technical interoperability of the Rafale fleet could well be undermined with an F4.1 standard for the existing Rafale and an F4.2 for the 58 aircraft still to be delivered to France. While all the devices will receive software updates and will be able to integrate the various modernized modular elements, such as the AESA radar or a new OSF (Frontal Sector Optronics), only F4.2 devices will receive all the hardware modifications of the standard. F4, especially in electronic warfare. A priori, these aircraft should also have precautionary measures for deeper modernizations in the context of subsequent standards, or a possible mid-life renovation of the Rafale.

Connectivity, engagement and availability

The first risk-lifting studies on the Rafale F4 standard began in 2017, the scope of the standard being determined the following year for a development launch in January 2019. At present, if the ambitions of the DGA and the GIE Rafale International on this new standard are clearly defined, all the details of the configuration would not have been fixed. As always, compromises will have to be made between operational needs, respect for the budgetary envelope and industrial imperatives. The open architecture of the Rafale should allow an incremental implementation of the new standard, with certain functionalities available from 2022, the validation of the complete standard not taking place until 2024 for delivery to the forces in 2025.

• interconnectivity;

• device support and availability;

• improvement of sensors;

• modernization of armaments.

In these different fields, many innovations have appeared in recent years. Thus, the computer components of modern weapon systems today increasingly rely on artificial intelligence for massive data processing, which has become essential for managing the complexity of the battlefield, but also for improving tools. predictive maintenance. Likewise, advances in applied chemistry have made it possible to improve missile propulsion, or to make the use of gallium nitride (GaN) affordable, which improves the performance of the AESA antennas of the Rafale's self-protection system. , the famous SPECTRA.

Communication and connectivity

If the Rafale were to have only one flaw, it would probably be its radio. Without being catastrophic, it seems quite far from current standards in terms of signal strength and clarity. With the F4 standard, the Rafale will finally be equipped with a brand new digital communication system which should improve pilots' situational awareness, including in electronically contested environments:

• the devices will thus receive CONTACT software radio, the new standard of the French armies allowing the various actors present in the theater to share a common operational image;

• a new intra-patrol tactical data link, discreet and directional, should also integrate the Rafale, alongside the current L-16. This link will be based on three-dimensional waveforms (FO3D) generated by digital synthesis;

• the Rafales should be equipped, at the bottom of the drift, with a military-grade, encrypted, discreet and SYRACUSE IV compatible SATCOM, which could be derived from the SAKaR unveiled by Thales in November 2018;

• the management of these communication sets, in addition to the existing data links, should be entrusted to a new generation of communication servers, possibly derived from Thales NEXENs, making it possible to simplify the task of the crew while ensuring encryption and cyber data protection.

All of this equipment should make it possible to create real communication networks within a Rafale patrol, but also, via SATCOM and CONTACT, throughout an entire theater of operations. Each pilot will thus have access to an extended tactical situation allowing long-range network combat, even in complex environments. The Rafale can also serve as a radio relay between ground troops and metropolitan decision-making centers, or follow the evolution of a tactical situation live from the start of their transit phase. In many respects, this is the real raison d'être of the F4 standard, which allows the Rafale to catch up with its connectivity delay on the F-35, mentioned in 2017 by the chief of staff of the Air Force in front of the National Assembly.

Sensors and interface

In line with the F3R standard, the F4 should bring improvements in terms of detection. For the AESA RBE2 radar, the modifications will mainly be software with the addition of a GMTI (Ground Moving Target Indicator) mode for the detection and tracking of mobile land targets, as well as an ultra-HD mode for imaging. long range radar. Mode interleaving should be further improved, in part thanks to the continued increase in computing power offered by the Rafale's open architecture, which should be completely modernized and made more resistant to cyber attacks. If the GaN-based AESA technology today seems too expensive to be applied to the antenna of an RBE2, it should be applied to those of the SPECTRA system, responsible in particular for wiretapping and jamming. SPECTRA should thus gain in frequency agility, angular precision, detection speed and transmission power, while operating over a wider range of frequencies, against aerial or surface contact. In terms of sensors, the great "novelty" should relate to the return of an IR channel on board the OSF, a capability abandoned a few years ago, but which was requested in particular by the French army. Indian air.

In terms of interface, the choice was made not to upset the existing ergonomics. In the cockpit, the side screens have been slightly enlarged and equipped with a new touch interface. The great ergonomic novelty should therefore be a helmet display, planned at the start of the program, but canceled twice in the past. Although the system is eagerly awaited by the pilots, all the obstacles have not yet been overcome. Indeed, the financial and operational logic pushes towards the choice of an Israeli solution already integrated on the Rafale export, while Thales logically militates for a national solution.

Armaments

After the integration of the Meteor into the F3R, the Rafale F4 armaments panel should expand further:

• the SCALP EG missile should be reconditioned by MBDA in order to deal with obsolescence and cell aging. The first refurbished SCALPs will be delivered next year and will serve until the early 2030s;

• AASM armament should evolve further, with the appearance of a simplified Bk.4, devoid of propulsion and optimized for close air support. A 1000 kg version of the AASM should also be integrated into the Rafale in the coming years, replacing the GBU ‑ 24;

• but the great innovation in terms of armament will be the MICA ‑ NG which will complete the Meteor on the medium range. If it maintains the aerodynamics, mass and balance of the MICA, the MICA ‑ NG will be a highly efficient missile. The radar-guided version will have a more powerful AESA antenna, but also more resistant to jamming. The MICA ‑ IR infrared seeker will be entitled to a new matrix sensor that is more sensitive and capable of better discriminating against adverse decoys. Finally, the miniaturization of the electronic compartment allows the transport of more propellant for the engine, which has a double impulse capacity. Enough to increase the MICA's range by 30%, while allowing it to keep energy in reserve to maneuver during the interception phase.

It should be noted that the integration of laser-guided rockets and the development of a new nuclear missile are the subject of separate programs and are therefore not taken into account in the context of the F4 standard.

Support and availability

As with every standard change, significant efforts have been made in terms of Maintenance in Operational Condition (MCO) and use costs, this time with a more extensive integration of the latest digital technologies. Today, the Harpagon technical restitution and logistics management system already makes it possible to do without a large part of periodic inspections on the Rafale, in particular by improving the remedial treatment of breakdowns and by making it possible to better anticipate preventive maintenance. The F3R standard already integrates diagnostic assistance functions using the data collected by the hundreds of sensors distributed throughout the cell of the device.

However, improving algorithms and computing power will make it possible to multiply the collection and use of massive data after each Rafale flight. Enough to set up, in the years to come, a real forecast maintenance which will further reduce the cost of operational support and improve availability ... if all the spare parts are not monopolized in OPEX, which is another thing. problem.

With the F4 standard, the entire logistics chain will therefore be updated in order to prepare for the gradual generalization of forecast maintenance methods. The Harpagon system will undergo a new development, miniaturized sensors will be integrated into the MICA ‑ NGs and the M88 reactor will receive a modernization of its FADECs, with new computers providing more data processing power. For Safran Aircraft Engines, massive collection of technical data is essential to improve engine efficiency, reduce maintenance costs, but also prepare for the future, in this case the motorization of the Franco-German SCAF.

As we can see, the successive standards of the Rafale bring their share of incremental modernizations, and the F4 is no exception to this rule. If, externally, the new standard does not seem to induce such significant changes as the F3R which saw the arrival of the RBE2 AESA and the Meteor, the evolution is nevertheless much more impressive on the numerical level, promising a major operational breakthrough in terms of tactical situational awareness, network-centric combat, electronic warfare, cyber protection and passive detection. Better still, the F4 is now preparing for the future evolutions of the Rafale, whether it concerns predictive maintenance, multistatic detection, precautionary measures for future plate radars distributed over the airframe of the aircraft or the improvement of electronic warfare capabilities, including offensives. Enough to allow the Rafale to remain a formidable adversary in the decades to come, even in the face of stealth planes.

https://www.areion24.news/2020/06/02/rafale-le-standard-f4-se-devoile/

[wagdoox]

Il y a 22 heures, Bon Plan a dit :

very surprising.  Not to say near impossible....

The missile hasnt being integrated with the radar 

[DrSomnath999]

Only 364 Kms From Lhasa, 2nd Batch Of Rafale Jets At Hasimara Minutes Away From Critical Chinese Posts

 

Hasimara Air Force Station in West Bengal’s Alipurduar district is expected to house the second squadron of the Rafale jets to be received by end of mid-2021. The Hasimara airbase holds strategic importance as it lies only 364km away from Lhasa airport in Tibet’s capital.

Hasimara is under the operational command of the Shillong-based Eastern Air Command, which shares the security concerns of the Line of Actual Control (LAC) along with the Western Air Command and Prayagraj-based Central Air Command.

“The second base for Rafale is planned at Hashimara (West Bengal). Pakistan is not the real enemy as far airpower is concerned, but our eastern neighbor China is. When we didn’t have Rafale, we had moved three squadrons of Sukhoi in the east. With Rafale, we will have an adequate number of airborne fighters and fighter bombers to look after the China threat,” former Vice-Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Barbora told The Tribune.

The first squadron of the French origin jets was received at the Ambala Air Force Station in Punjab. New Delhi has allocated a budget of Rs 400 crores for these two Air Force Stations to build facilities, develop shelters, hangers, and maintenance facilities to house the Rafale jets.

The Hasimara base was created after the 1962 Indo Sino war. It earlier had a MiG-27 squadron which is being now replaced by Rafales but it presently has no squadrons. Although, it has also housed several other fighter jets including Gnats, Ajeets, Hunters, MiG-21Bis, and the Mig-27 ML fighter jets.

“Earlier, it was planned that one squadron of the Rafale would be based out of the Sarsawa Air Force Station in Uttar Pradesh. However, issues relating to land acquisition eventually led to the selection of the Ambala Air Force Station to prepare itself for a two-front war in the northern side from Pakistan and China,” said Grp Captain (retd) R K Das. “We have some porous border in the Eastern sector, so Hasimara Air Force base being fortified,” he added.

After the recent clash at the LAC in Galwan valley, India has ramped up its military preparedness by making emergency procurement of munitions. Hasimara airbase is responsible for guarding the tiny Chicken’s Neck or the Siliguri Corridor in North Bengal, a narrow stretch of land about 22 kilometers wide that connects the country’s mainland with the northeastern states.

Nepal on the north and Bangladesh on the south. Hasimara base is also responsible for guarding the Nathula pass in Sikkim from the Chinese.

 

 

 

 

 

https://eurasiantimes.com/only-364-kms-from-lhasa-2nd-batch-of-rafale-jets-at-hasimara-minutes-away-from-critical-chinese-posts/

[wagdoox]

Le 03/08/2020 à 16:31, Patrick a dit :

It may be, partially, but probably not as a "kit".
I believe it consists into an application of more RAM on several parts of the jet, which can be retroactively done on any aircraft, making Spectra even more efficient.

The parallel with Neuron comes into mind: it is indeed quite possible the coating applied on the skin of Neuron could be used on Rafale. At least there are hints this was added to the indian specific enhancements.

 

I knew there was a reason i spoke of « kit »...

found an article a read a long time ago 

These include
the extremely secretive DEDIRA (Démonstrateur de Discrétion du
Rafale, Rafale discretion demonstrator), which focuses on new and innovative processes to improve the airframe’s low- observable qualities against air-defence radars and fighter air-intercept radars.
“We are currently having discussions
with the Armée de l’Air and the Marine Nationale regarding their future operational needs and requirements,” the programme director confirmed. “Many options are being scrutinised, from the development of a UCAV to an increase in the number of Rafales. Nothing has been decided yet. What I can tell you is that we will not alter the Rafale’s airframe if we do not need to and that we will keep its proven aerodynamic shape.
“The Rafale retains a huge growth potential, especially regarding the size of the radar antennas and the dimensions and weighs
of its weapons. We might adopt radar cross-section reduction kits, but without radically modifying the airframe. We
will keep all options open. For example, we are considering the possibility of increasing the number of decoys carried by the fighter. In this respect, a DIRCM [directional infrared countermeasures] turret used to generate a laser jamming signal to defeat an incoming missile could well find its way onto the Rafale.”

[bubzy]

@DrSomnath999

The points lowhlighted regarding the question of Rafale's new standard, and the question from some guys to tell that it will be more relevant to wait to order new Rafale and not F3r ones, i will give you this article that i wrote some years ago:

http://www.portail-aviation.com/blog/2014/12/09/rafale-la-revolution-dans-levolution/#:~:text=S'il est vrai que,'y attarde %3A son évolutivité.

It is in french, i'm sorry for that. For resuming :

- Unlike other fighter aircraft hardware electronic infrastructure, Rafale have a huge advantage : its modularity. 

Basically, the core computing system is not a black box that you have to completely change when you will upgrade the system (like all other aircraft, from F16 to F35). No. CPU & RAM are located in kind of blades you can insert into a kind of backplane. There is 3 or 4 generation now of different power architecture CPU. They have a gain of core number, frequency, and quantity of RAM. When french air force receive a new plane with highter computing power than older Rafale, they can take some blades and integrate them into older one if they need it too. Verry useful for fleet management. It takes only few minutes.

- You have another really revolutionnal architecture in software too. The usage of virtualisation. Like in computing world, instead of developping softoware attached to the hardware, you put a level of abstraction between them. So, software developpers don't have to manage the evolution of hardware. The hypervisor developpers will take it in charge. When they have installed new version of hardware with new computing cards during the development of F3 version, they put the new cards into the backplan, and... The system started well, without the need to developp a new sotfware. And ask to @Picdelamirand-oil the différences into two différents verison of F35 with an upgrade of processor and all the issues they have with it because they need to upgrade and test ALL the code again.

So, i understand that a guy who know how its hard to upgrade the system of a fighter aircraf is affraid when your are talking about two version of the same plane. But if he know how the architecture of Rafale is designed, he will understand that there is nothing to do with all others. 

Nobody talk about that. But for me is one of the MAIN point that make Rafale suprerior to other in sustainability by the air forces in the time, and to ensure that the plane will be easily up to date with other competitor, by upgrading it faster, and much more cheaper.  

[DrSomnath999]

https://theprint.in/defence/second-batch-of-rafale-fighter-jets-from-france-to-arrive-in-india-in-october/490764/

[Lordtemplar]

17 hours ago, DrSomnath999 said:

https://theprint.in/defence/second-batch-of-rafale-fighter-jets-from-france-to-arrive-in-india-in-october/490764/

Merci. Donc cela fera 5 + 4 pour nos amis indiens.

C'est aussi interessant que l'article semble confirmer qu'il a des rumeurs dans les couloirs de la defense pour un autre lot de 36 Rafale en attendant le resultat du long processus MMRCA 2.0.  Je ne sais pas si cela va se concretiser, mais il me semble que ceci demontre surtout que l'Inde estime ne pas avoir assez de Rafale et qu'elle voudrait trouver un moyen d'accelerer les livraisons.  Peut etre que c'est l'Inde qui serait interesse a acheter des Rafales d'occasion de ADA pour accelerer le nombre de Rafale en Inde?  (apres tout je crois que la livraison de munitions en Inde etait a partir des stocks existants francais).  Je specule, mais ile me semble que c'est une logique qui tient la route.

PS sorry forgot this was the english thread

Thx for the info, so this means 5+4 Rafale for IAF

I find it also interesting that the article mentions rumours within the IAF about the purchase of a 2nd batch of 36 Rafale while the long decision process for MMRCA 2.0 comes to fruition.  It is not so much that this rumour is new, but it seems that this rumour highlights the fact the the IAF is in hurry to get more planes. There are other recent rumours of "someone" interested in buying about a dozen 2nd hand Rafale from the french air force.  I am purely speculating, but I wonder if that customer could be India.  This would seem very logical for IAF to hasten the number of deliveries (it is very similar to the recent delivery of weapons for Rafale in India.  To speed up the process of deliveries, France delivered weapons from french air force's existing stockpile)

My 2 cents 

 

Modifié le 30 août 2020 par Lordtemplar

[DrSomnath999]

https://www.itamilradar.com/2020/08/29/greece-to-buy-rafale/

 

https://www.meta-defense.fr/en/2020/08/25/Greece-would-like-to-acquire-12-Rafale-planes/

 

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/91781/france-steps-up-rafale-marketing-in-greece.html

 

hee hee rafale vs S400 scenario twice

 

one in india vs china  and now greece  vs turkey even if france might use himself if not greece  if this news of gifting rafale  is not true btw rafale old version if they give to greece

i am skeptical how would it perform against S400

 

lets see how rafale performs

 

CHEERS

 

 

 

 

[DrSomnath999]

https://www.ouest-france.fr/economie/entreprises/dassault/dassault-le-gouvernement-pourrait-revoir-le-calendrier-de-commandes-de-30-rafale-6953008

 

https://www.challenges.fr/entreprise/defense/paris-discute-avec-dassault-du-calendrier-des-commandes-de-rafale_724991

[wagdoox]

il y a une heure, DrSomnath999 a dit :

i am skeptical how would it perform against S400

1) You can had egypt rafale vs s400 in Libya. 
2) the s400 alone will likely be problematic vs Russian system need patsmir and s300 to complite the s400 otherwise the s400 will require additional missiles very fast. 
3) Russians développed a special patch for the rafale meaning the rafale is a worthy opponent. 
4) the rafale can use scalp as stand off weapon if it doesn’t work hammer will be use to saturate the s400. 
lf course only a opération will give us a real answer but the s400 has only 48 missiles (they will be destroyed before reload). If they use 2 missiles to intercept 1 hammer as per Russian doctrine then 10 rafale will be enough to overload and destroy the s400 with 60 hammer. (It also work with 1 anti to 1 missile).  
finally the s400 even if delivered are not yet ready. It seems Russia is slowly the readiness as for China. And mdcn will probably enter in the equation. 

ceres would really help but 2021...

the only thing that worries me is the amg 84 vs exocet 3, the c variant will start delivery next yezr as well

Modifié le 30 août 2020 par wagdoox

[DrSomnath999]

56 minutes ago, wagdoox said:

1) You can had egypt rafale vs s400 in Libya. 
2) the s400 alone will likely be problematic vs Russian system need patsmir and s300 to complite the s400 otherwise the s400 will require additional missiles very fast. 
3) Russians développed a special patch for the rafale meaning the rafale is a worthy opponent. 
4) the rafale can use scalp as stand off weapon if it doesn’t work hammer will be use to saturate the s400. 
lf course only a opération will give us a real answer but the s400 has only 48 missiles (they will be destroyed before reload). If they use 2 missiles to intercept 1 hammer as per Russian doctrine then 10 rafale will be enough to overload and destroy the s400 with 60 hammer. (It also work with 1 anti to 1 missile).  
finally the s400 even if delivered are not yet ready. It seems Russia is slowly the readiness as for China. And mdcn will probably enter in the equation. 

ceres would really help but 2021...

You quoted and replied to an insufficient part of my post .rather you should have quoted and replied the complete sentence of my post.which is if they gift old Rafales not new ones like f2 standard planes.i don't think France would be so generous to gift new ones for free.

CHEERS

 

[pascal]

Given the urgency, taking A.A. Rafale is relevant decision. And it should be a good argument to replace them quickly by devices with the new standard. The Dassault chains have to be run without forgetting all the supply chain behind. It's a win-win situation.

[wagdoox]

il y a 7 minutes, DrSomnath999 a dit :

You quoted and replied to an insufficient part of my post .rather you should have quoted and replied the complete sentence of my post.

This is still for me to decide ;)

il y a 7 minutes, DrSomnath999 a dit :

they gift old Rafales not new ones like f2 standard planes.i don't think France would be so generous to gift new ones for free.

I didnt not reply to that since we don’t have any f2, we can talk about t2. And no france will not give weapons unless france itself is directly threatened. Making this a very likely fake news and therefore unworthy to comment. How could we sale anymore rafale to anyone if we give to some, we will need to give to all. 

Modifié le 30 août 2020 par wagdoox

[Kelkin]

Il y a 1 heure, DrSomnath999 a dit :

which is if they gift old Rafales not new ones like f2 standard planes.i don't think France would be so generous to gift new ones for free.

Technically all Rafale aircraft in French service are in F3R standard.

However, that's the aircraft. And the F3R standard is mostly a software standard. What I mean by that is that, while a new Rafale F3R is shipped with, for example, an RBE2-AA (AESA) radar, this Rafale is perfectly able to also use the older RBE2 (PESA) radar. Same for the older DDM instead of the DDM-NG, same for the OSF instead of the OSF-IT, and so on. The AdlA has generally not bothered to order new equipment to upgrade the older Rafales, just doing the required software updates and then taking advantage of the Rafale's plug-and-play architecture as well as its robust data links to make sure that flight groups that need AESA capabilities will have at least one aircraft with the newer radar, even if that's not all the planes in the group. Since there's no situation where the AdlA is expected to scramble every single last fighter in its inventory, it's not a problem if the majority of the radars aren't AESA, there's still enough of them to go around.

With this context, giving away "old standard" Rafales should probably be understood as giving away Rafales equipped with the old versions of the equipment. The Rafales themselves are still F3R standard, but the equipment they have is the equipment of an F2 standard Rafale. Makes sense?

That said I have no idea if this rumor of given aircraft is true or not. I guess we have 10 or 11 days to wait.

[wagdoox]

il y a 15 minutes, Kelkin a dit :

The Rafales themselves are still F3R standard, but the equipment they have is the equipment of an F2 standard Rafale. Makes sense?

Nop because you forget a every important part of the equation, the potential of the cell and the type of aircraft. 
t2 make much more sense it takes into consideration the overall problem, equipment and cells. 
that « news » makes even less sense when also talking about the f1 since out of the 13 of that tranch 10 are M, who can believe we would sell those. That shows the vert low level of understanding of the author. 
to go even further as you said the aesa and pesa are interchangeable so we could sell a few aesa to greece giving them an edge 

Modifié le 30 août 2020 par wagdoox

[PolluxDeltaSeven]

Le 24/08/2020 à 19:38, DrSomnath999 a dit :

Rafale: the F4 standard is revealed

June 2, 2020

 

In January 2019, when the first Rafale to the F3R standard arrived in the Air Force, the Minister of the Armed Forces took advantage of a visit to the Dassault Aviation plant in Mérignac to officially launch the development of a new standard. major, the F4. Enough to allow the aircraft to increase its operational performance, but also to remain competitive in the years to come, especially against the Lockheed Martin F ‑ 35.

On the F3R standard, the latest to date for the Rafale, efforts have mainly focused on updating the software and improving the sensors and armaments: AESA antenna for the RBE2 radar; integration of the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile; new TALIOS laser designation pod (Targeting Long-range Identification Optronic System); integration of GBU ‑ 16 and AASM Bk.3 bombs. With the F4 standard, the idea this time is to focus on issues of connectivity and network combat, which implies profound changes in both software and hardware. And, for the first time, the perfect technical interoperability of the Rafale fleet could well be undermined with an F4.1 standard for the existing Rafale and an F4.2 for the 58 aircraft still to be delivered to France. While all the devices will receive software updates and will be able to integrate the various modernized modular elements, such as the AESA radar or a new OSF (Frontal Sector Optronics), only F4.2 devices will receive all the hardware modifications of the standard. F4, especially in electronic warfare. A priori, these aircraft should also have precautionary measures for deeper modernizations in the context of subsequent standards, or a possible mid-life renovation of the Rafale.

 

https://www.areion24.news/2020/06/02/rafale-le-standard-f4-se-devoile/

:D That's my article ;)

I wrote this almost a year ago, but sadly we sill have no further (confirmed) details about the F4 standard. We'll probably have to wait to know more. 
But don't forget that there are other upgrades currently in development that are not part of the F4 contract (but could/will be integrated on the F4 nevertheless). And there are even more options for export customers !