Des nouvelles de la Royal Air Force

[GABY]

@Chris - Ce sont des accidents rares mais ils peuvent toujours arriver dans une zone aeroportuaire* ;)

Je note cependant que les voitures ne semblent pas avoir trop soufferts au regard du violent choc. Vous remarquerez que les ailes du Hawk ont fini par se désolidariser du fuselage.

Il est heureux que les pilotes aient pu s'éjecter et qu'il n'y ait pas eu de piétons ou vehicules occupés percutés de plein fouet ! (quoique pour le 4x4 jaune, je présume qu'il y avait un conducteur à son volant, lequel a dû avoir la frousse de sa vie  :O ).

*je travaille dans les assurances ;)

[SpongeBob]

Côté anglais on met la pression.

Britain considers £9bn JSF project pullout

Michael Smith

BRITAIN is considering pulling out of a £9 billion project with America to produce the new Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) aircraft, intended to fly off the Royal Navy’s forthcoming aircraft carriers.

The move is part of an increasingly desperate attempt to plug a £1.5 billion shortfall in the defence budget. The RAF’s 25 new Airbus A400 transport aircraft could also be at risk.

Studies have now been commissioned to analyse whether Eurofighters could be adapted to fly off the carriers.

If Britain abandons the JSF, it will be seen as a further snub to the Americans following Gordon Brown’s decision last week not to send 4,000 more troops to Afghanistan.

Only a week earlier, during a visit to London, Robert Gates, the American defence secretary, had said he understood Britain would be sending more troops to meet what commanders say is a 10,000 shortfall.

The possible ditching of the JSF results in part from spiralling costs that have seen the price of the planned 150 British aircraft rise from the original £9 billion estimate to £15 billion.

Britain has already paid out £2.5 billion in preliminary costs but next spring must start paying for actual aircraft. At that point it is committed to the entire project whatever the price.

Once full production begins, Britain will be paying more than £1 billion a year for the aircraft, exacerbating the already dire state of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) budget.

“That has really concentrated minds at the MoD,” said Francis Tusa, editor of Defence Analysis. “Put simply no-one has the faintest idea how much this project will cost.”

The cost is only part of the problem. There is serious concern over the aircraft’s lack of firepower as it can only carry three 500lb bombs, compared with as many as eight on the Eurofighter.

There is also increasing frustration over the continued American refusal to share information on the technology involved.

President George Bush signed a deal with Tony Blair shortly before the former prime minister handed over to Gordon Brown, promising to share top secret technology with Britain.

The deal has still to be ratified by Congress and the Senate foreign relations committee has written to Bush warning him it will not now be ratified until the new president takes office.

There is consternation over the lack of information Britain is receiving on the aircraft and this country’s lack of input into designing its capability.

BAE Systems, manufacturer of the RAF’s Eurofighter, has been asked to produce a study into whether it could be flown from the carriers, which are due to enter service in 2014 and 2016.

The JSF is a short-take-off-and-vertical-landing (STOVL) aircraft similar to the Harrier aircraft that are currently being flown off the Royal Navy’s two old carriers.

Flying Eurofighter from the new carriers would require pilots to learn a completely new skill of landing conventionally at sea — a task likened by experts to a “controlled crash”.

It would also require the Eurofighter fuselage to be strengthened, the attachment of an arrestor hook to stop the aircraft on landing, and protection against saltwater erosion.

The BAE Systems study, carried out earlier this year, determined that the aircraft could be built to land on carriers without major difficulty.

A company spokesman would only confirm that the study had been carried out and that the MoD had seen the results which confirmed the aircraft could be adapted to fly off carriers.

Replacing JSF with some of the 232 Eurofighters the RAF is committed to buying would be attractive for the Treasury, which has always wanted to find ways to cut its £16 billion cost.

The deal committed all four major partners — Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain — to paying for all the aircraft they originally ordered even if they later decided to cut the numbers they needed.

The cost of the project, now running at close to £1.2 billion a year, is the biggest single contributor to the £1.5 billion shortfall in the defence budget.

Efforts to stave off the payments dragged the government into the controversy over the decision to call off a Serious Fraud Office investigation into alleged bribes paid by BAE Systems.

The probe into the company’s £43 billion al-Yamamah arms deal with Saudi Arabia was expected to examine the bank accounts of members of the Saudi royal family.

A £6 billion deal under which Saudi Arabia agreed to take 72 Eurofighters from Britain — earning the MoD a two-year payments holiday on its own aircraft — was dependent on the probe being called off.

That has only served to focus attention on the fact that when the payments holiday ends, Britain will be committed to a decade of paying well in excess of £2 billion a year for two different strike aircraft.

The additional measure of cancelling the military version of the Airbus A400 would only save a total of £1.5 billion but is attractive to the Treasury because it would cost nothing.

The aircraft has consistently failed to meet deadlines with manufacturer EADS admitting last week that it could not meet the deadline for the first test flight.

“The RAF and the MoD would prefer to enforce penalty clauses providing compensation for delays while continuing with the project,” said defence sources. “But the Treasury would happily bin it.”

The MoD said “marinising” Eurofighter had been looked at as an option but “JSF remains our optimum solution to fly off the carriers”.

A spokesman said Britain remained “fully committed to the defence trade cooperation treaty and we are working closely with the American administration to find a way forward.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4837746.ece

[winloose]

et voila, maintenant ils se rattrapent  en envisageant une version navale pendant que nous qui avons quitté le projet pour une version navale  avons des rafales opérationels  :P

[Invité BPCs]

Après la revue Jane's défense qui pense qu'il faudrait acheter des F-22 après la Géorgie et le retour possible d'affrontement symétrique,

la Rand Corporation qui décrit des perfos du F-35 surclassées par tous les jet russes et chinois,

les norvégiens et les hollandais qui hésitent,

les aussies qui n'hésitent plus et ont commandé des F-18, l'US navy qui commande des F-18 pour faire face au fighter gap ,

l'USAF qui obtient potentiellement 20 F-22 de plus,

si maintenant les GB s'y mettent, il ne va pas passer l'année le bébé F-35 :lol:

Si c'est pas du "hidden agenda" ça ... ;)

[Will]

Il est plus en plus probable que le projet HELIX va mene a un achat de 3 avions "Rivet Joint" pour la RAF.

http://www.dsca.osd.mil/PressReleases/36-b/2008/UK_08-89.pdf

HELIX est le projet pour la future capacite ELINT/SIGINT ou pour le moment on utilise 3 Nimrod R1...le choix est entre modernise les R1, utilise une variation du meme avion que ASTOR (Bombardier Global Express) ou les Rivet Joints.

[Chris.]

euh...

vous pourriez pas monter le système sur des A330 neufs ou des avions du genre ?

parce que là, vous allez vous retrouvez avec 3 cellules datant des années 60 qui vont pas durer très longtemps...

Un peu comme le/les DC-8 Sarigue NG français, qui ont même pas servi 10 ans à cause d'une cellule de base trop chère à entretenir...

[pascal]

Certes mais en faveur du Nimrod il y a bcp de cellules qui volent alors que les DC 8/72 remotorisés CFM 56 il ne devait plus y en avoir que 3 ...

[Captain Pif]

Certes mais en faveur du Nimrod il y a bcp de cellules qui volent alors que les DC 8/72 remotorisés CFM 56 il ne devait plus y en avoir que 3 ...

Beaucoup de Nimrod?

dans un avenir proche, 12 MR4A... et ce sera tout, si la RAF achète des RC-135.

[pascal]

Ben oui 12 4A ...

Aujourd'hui il y en a plus.

Pour les anglais renoncer au Nimrod c'est investir très lourdement pour acquérir donc au moins 12 appareils neufs d'un modèle complexe et couteux. Pas simple budgétairement parlant par les temps qui courrent.

Il y avait deux DC8 72 TLRA plus le Sarigue NG ...

[Invité Rob]

Les 9 Tristars du RAF ont maintenant un OSD de 2015. C'est a dire de 2011 le RAF va operer 14 A330 MRTTs et 9 Tristars. :) Ca me dit que en l'avenir on va avoir peut-etre plus que 14 A330 MRTTs.

Link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/cambridgeshire/7697384.stm

[Will]

La RAF ne va pas defendre l'Islande en decembre comme prevue. Il y a des tensions pour le moment entre le UK et les islandais car le gouvernement a utilise des nouvelles lois anti-terroristes pour geler des assets de banques islandaise en faillite pour sauver les investissements du publique brittanique.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5h1j4LuJW1UCg0zXOKKjMDaBPavIg

oh well...quelques millions de pounds economise je suppose  :P :lol:

[Captain Pif]

Dommage pour le solidarité otanienne...

[Chris.]

en même temps, je suis pas sûr que l'Islande le mérite, vu qu'elle a proposé au pire ennemi de l'OTAN d'y installer une base aérienne...

[Tancrède]

Snifff, chuis jaloux, là (pas pour les F-35  ;)): 3 Rivet Joint§ Ca c'est une vraie grosse belle capacité stratégique. La facture est signalée par DSI à 1 milliard de dollars quand même. Ca fait mal, mais c'est bon :lol:. Nous on rénove difficilement 2 Gabriels....

[francois]

bah on a pas trop a se plaidre de ce coté là on a quand un superbe navire Minrem, et de prochains mini satellites ELINT/Sigint

[Will]

Le ASTOR Sentinel va etre declare operationnel de facon "imminent"

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3830302&c=EUR&s=TOP

[Invité Rob]

Deux petities nouvelles du desider 11/2008.

Le RAF va avoir 5 Reapers et on va payer 2 milliards de livres en les prochaines annees pour moderniser les Apaches, Chinooks, Merlins et Sea Kings. Le 850 millions livres pour les 38 Merlins du Navy ne sont pas inclus en ces 2 milliards.

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A97E1074-08BA-4301-8E61-42FBDF623F40/0/desider_07Nov08.pdf

[Will]

La RAF considere le achat de encore 1-2 C-17 et le achat ou leasing de plus de C-130J en regard du retard du A400M...dit defensenews.

D autres options est le entre en service plus vite des nouveaux tankers-transporteurs A330 et une extension de vie des C-130Ks.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3837065&c=EUR&s=AIR

Flightglobal est aussi sur l affaire.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/11/25/319321/uk-eyes-more-c-17s-to-cover-a400m-delay.html

J ai deja dit avant que la RAF a mis en reserve 4 numeros "ZZ" (les 6 actuels C-17s sont ZZ-171 -> ZZ-177). Je ne dit pas que c est forcement le preuve d un achat imminent.

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=26313

[Arka_Voltchek]

Le ASTOR Sentinel va etre declare operationnel de facon "imminent"

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3830302&c=EUR&s=TOP

Bonne chose ça  =)

@+, Arka

[Will]

2 Sentinels et equipements au sol sont a un endroit secret au Moyen Orient pour commence des operations en Afghanistan des a present. J espere que ils vont donne un boost a nos soldats et allies.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/12/01/319508/uks-astor-system-achieves-delayed-in-service-date.html

[Arka_Voltchek]

2 Sentinels et equipements au sol sont a un endroit secret au Moyen Orient pour commence des operations en Afghanistan des a present. J espere que ils vont donne un boost a nos soldats et allies.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/12/01/319508/uks-astor-system-achieves-delayed-in-service-date.html

J'en doute, c'est appareils sont très utile pour détecter des véhicules en campagne (c.a.d. pas en ville avec des tonnes de bâtiments qui masquent), le problème là bas, c'est que les attaquants sont à pied et dans les villages. Ça sera peux-être utile, mais pas déterminant dans ce type de conflit.

@+, Arka

[Invité Rob]

J'en doute, c'est appareils sont très utile pour détecter des véhicules en campagne (c.a.d. pas en ville avec des tonnes de bâtiments qui masquent), le problème là bas, c'est que les attaquants sont à pied et dans les villages. Ça sera peux-être utile, mais pas déterminant dans ce type de conflit.

@+, Arka

The radar’s resolution is officially described at under one meter, but aerospace specialists say it is at least on par with the U-2’s acuity of well under a foot – and probably just a few inches.

Increasingly, U.S. officials want a piece of the action. Asked if the technology on Astor could track a walking man on a cloudy day, the head of the U.S. National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Vice Adm. Robert Murrett, paused, expressed familiarity with the Astor program, and then said: “Yes. As time goes on an increasing share of our collection capability will be less conventional. It will be less electro-optical, black and white, non-time-sensitive imagery. A much larger part of our mission set [as intelligence analysts] will be an array of five or six phenomenologies that can do many things like penetrate clouds [and underground].” (Aerospace DAILY, Oct. 2).

Link.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/ASTOR100308.xml&headline=U.S.%20Officials%20Eye%20Astor,%20Stress%20U.K.%20Alliance

[Will]

[Arka_Voltchek]

Rob, ça ne répond pas à ma remarque. Tu devine comment qu'un homme qui marche dans un village est un civil ou un terroriste ?

@+, Arka

[Invité Rob]

Rob, ça ne répond pas à ma remarque. Tu devine comment qu'un homme qui marche dans un village est un civil ou un terroriste ?

@+, Arka

Of course its not a magic weapon, however, assume a RM detachment is in the mountains in east Afghanistan, it is night and they are heading east further into the mountains, above them ASTOR "sees" 40 people moving toward them and another 30 moving toward them from the side, ambush anyone??? It might not be an ambush but with ASTOR the RM's on the ground have ample warning and know there might be an engagement ahead. Without ASTOR i see the likelihood of successful ambushes being far higher. Identification of targets will always happen on ground level (general rule of thumb imo should be shoot, then ask), forewarning is ASTOR's job.

Or look at it from this pov: The RAF, one of the great established air forces, thinks it will be useful in Afghanistan, do you really think you know better than them?

Sorry for the English, can't say that in French.