JLTV, le remplacant des Humvee

[Chronos]

ça finit par couter combien du Hummer ? Quelle serait la différence avec un VAB surblindé ou un CV 90 ?

[g4lly]

ça finit par couter combien du Hummer ?

Cher, mais pour le moment il n'y a pas d'alternative, le volume de véhicule est trop grand pour changer tout d'un coup de baguette magique, on par de plusieurs dizaine de milleurs de véhicule a chaque fois ! Pas de 15 Aravis.

Quelle serait la différence avec un VAB surblindé ou un CV 90 ?

10t :)

L'army patrouille a 5, une "fireteam" ... et compte continuer a patrouiller a 5, donc deux véhicule par escouade. On ne dispose pas pas de ce genre de patrouille légere mais encore débarquable ... nous on patrouille a 10 ... dans un seul "gros" véhicule, les vehicule léger servant a des spécialistes et a l'encadrement.

Les Hummer déployé en Afghanistan commence a etre remplacé par les M-ATV. Le programme JLTV doit remplacé la plupart des hummer exposés au combat dans quelques années.

[alexandreVBCI]

July 31/09: Oshkosh Corp. in Oshkosh, WI receives another M-ATV order, raising its total to $2.11 billion for 3,924 vehicles. They also announce that Oshkosh has exceeded the July 2009 delivery schedule of 45 M-ATVs by delivering 46.

The $1.064 billion firm-fixed-price contract modification exercises an option for another 1,700 M-ATVs, Field Service Representative Support, and associated parts support packages to include Authorized Stockage Lists (ASL), Prescribed Load List (PLL), Reprocessing Spares, Battle Damage Repair parts (BDR) and Basic Issue Items (BII).

Vehicles will be provided to the US Marine Corps, Army, Special Operations Command and US military testing. Vehicles and parts support packages will be fielded to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom. Field Service Representatives will be providing support in Kuwait and Afghanistan.

Work is to be performed in McConnellsburg, PA, with an estimated completion date of July 31, 2010. U.S. Army TACOM LCMC in Warren, MI manages this contract (W56HZV-09-D-0111, delivery order #0002, modification 02).

2224 M-ATV commandés en juin + 1700 commandés en juillet = 3924 commandes fermes pour l'instant. Déjà 46 véhicules livrés destinés à l'afghanistan.

[g4lly]

http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/374/

Despite criticism of the vehicle from many sides and alternative solutions being already in service or on order, the US Army still continues purchasing their vehicular backbone, the HMMWV (High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle) , colloquially Hummvee or Humvee. End of July AM General LLC was awarded a contract by the US Army worth $124 million (€87.37 million) for the delivery of 843 new vehicles. This might sound surprising, but it isn’t.

While the experience of contemporary conflict areas, and most prominently in Iraq, have highlighted the HMMWV’s survivability limitations (including in the protected version) and have thus led to a whole series of up-armouring programmes (with all the negative implications on payload and mobility), it should be appreciated that this whole process does not stem from any basic defence or shortcoming of the original design, but rather from the emergence of new and previously unforeseen asymmetric war scenarios.

Out of place and outclassed

The Hummer was originally designed for logistic duties in symmetric war scenarios, with a clearly defined front line and relatively safe rear areas. It was thus not requested to offer its occupants protection against intense small arms fire, much less heavy machine guns, rocket propelled grenades and road bombs – for the very simple reason that it was not intended to come close to areas, where such threats are present.

Facing an increasingly more dangerous, more unpredictable and less conventional environment in Iraq, the HMMWV has been up-armoured with steel and/or composite side and rear plates, new armoured doors with bullet-resistant glass, and a ballistic windshield, which however significantly reduced the payload as well as agility and operating life of the vehicle. As a result of this problem, the much more heavily protected MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) series of protected carriers have been procured under a crash programme primarily for use in Iraq. But when MRAP vehicles were deployed to Afghanistan, it was quickly discovered that the prevailing rugged terrain there did create very serious limits to their mobility. Hence, yet another crash programme for the procurement of a smaller and more agile vehicle, the M-ATV was launched. Further, a third vehicle intended as HMMWV replacement, the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) is currently under development.

Still part of the Army’s backbone fleet

Nevertheless, the US Army remains committed to the traditional vehicle and places new orders. The vehicle’s payload capability has been increased by reducing the weight of their add-on armour and other new features such as lifting jacks and improved vehicle emergency escape windshield has been integrated.

The success story of the HMMWV continued with new orders in 2009: The US DoD announced early this year the procurement of additional 1,698 vehicles. Another batch of 3,401 vehicles has been ordered 30 January 2009 as well as 88 vehicles in April and 218 in June.

Till July 2009, the US Army transferred some 8,000 M1114 HMMWV’s to the Iraqi Security Forces.

[collectionneur]

Concernant les M-ATV de 15 tonnes, dans l'article ci joint, on indique les livraisons par service prévu :

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M-ATV-A-Win-at-Last-for-Oshkosh-05602/

5 244 M-ATV :

* US Army : 2 598,

* Marine Corps : 1 565

* Special Operations Command : 643

* US Air Force : 280

* US Navt : 65

* Véhicules test :93

[Oberoth]

Sur Wikipedia english y a ça :

   

* RG-31 1,963

   * RG-33 1,735

   * Buffalo 200

   * Cougar ~3,500 on order

   * Casspir

   * International MaxxPro 5,250 on order

   * BAE Caiman 2,800 on order

   * Oshkosh M-ATV 5,244 on order

et

High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (also known as HUMVEE) ~80,000

C'est correct toutes ces commandes et chiffres ?

[g4lly]

$470,000

---

Vous remarquerez que les tourelleaux disposent désormais d'une "marquise" protégeant le tireur du soleil :)

[Chronos]

Ne pourrait-on pas résumer en disant qu'on a réinventé l'automitrailleuse ?

[Babou]

euh les marquises comme tu dis ça fait un moment que ça existe ... les hummers en A-stan j'en ai déjà vu avec ...  ;)

[Clemor]

Ne pourrait-on pas résumer en disant qu'on a réinventé l'automitrailleuse ?

On pourrait effectivement que l'on a réinventé l'automitrailleuse.  =)

[g4lly]

[P4]

[g4lly]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-10365288-76.html

U.S. troops in Afghanistan are now starting to receive the first of thousands of a new vehicle intended for treacherous mountain roads and tight urban lanes.

The Defense Department said Wednesday that it had loaded seven M-ATVs (for "mine-resistant, ambush-protected all-terrain vehicles") onto a pair of aircraft for deployment to Afghanistan. Over the course of the next year, the military expects to field more than 6,600 of the vehicles (Click for a PDF of the M-ATV's brochure).

The M-ATV fits into a middle ground between up-armored Humvees, which it will be replacing in Afghanistan, and the hulking MRAP mine-resistant vehicles that the Pentagon has been sending in large numbers to Iraq over the last couple of years. While MRAPs have proved effective in protecting passengers against improvised explosive devices, they are often too large and too heavy for the roadways soldiers often need to patrol. And they're not exactly designed for off-roading.

Mine-resistant vehicles are characterized in part by their intrinsic armoring and by a V-shaped hull that helps to deflect the force of explosions at ground level. Humvees, meanwhile, weren't originally designed with IEDs in mind and have had to use add-on armor to gain some measure of protection.

The Oshkosh M-ATV weighs in at about 11 tons, which is only half as heavy as the average MRAP, and 5 tons lighter than the lightest MRAP. (Humvees are in the range of 5 tons apiece.) It can carry four passengers plus a gunner, and can handle a payload of 4,000 pounds.

M-ATVs on C-17

A pair of M-ATVs are strapped down in a C-17 aircraft on Wednesday, awaiting shipment to Afghanistan.

(Credit: U.S. Air Force photo/James M. Bowman

The new vehicle is powered by a 370-horsepower Caterpillar C7 engine, with an Allison 3500 SP transmission. It's built on Oshkosh's TAK-4 independent suspension system, which the company says has been used already on more than 10,000 Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacements (MTVRs) supplied to the Marines and Seabees.

In the field, the M-ATV is expected to support small-unit combat operations in challenging rural, mountainous, and urban environments.

Through the end of the year, when transport by sea is scheduled to begin, the U.S. Air Force expects to airlift between 300 and 500 M-ATVs per month from Charleston Air Force Base in South Carolina. The 437th Aerial Port Squadron there has already dispatched more than 3,700 MRAPs overseas.

Oshkosh received its initial delivery order from the Pentagon at the end of June. The deal was valued at $1.05 billion for 2,244 of the M-ATVs.

Update, 1:18 p.m. PDT: Oshkosh said Thursday that to date it has received orders valued at $2.3 billion for 4,296 M-ATVs, including spare parts and support services.

[collectionneur]

Les Hummer passent sous contrôle chinois  :P :

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises/industrie/automobile/20091009trib000431547/le-celebre-4x4-hummer-devient-chinois.html

[alexandreVBCI]

C'est le modèle civil (devenu invendable aux USA à cause de sa consommation d'essence) qui passe sous contrôle chinois, pas le véhicule militaire.

2 nouvelles :

- Le choix pour le JLTV n'est toujours pas fait mais techniquement le programme avance vite : http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,202788,00.html

- Chrysler propose de remplacer les Hummer par des jeep J8 militarisés :

"The Jeep J8 is a military version of Chrysler’s Jeep Wrangler. It comes with both diesel and gasoline engines, said Ken Bergquist, a vice president with JGMS. The company is pitching the J8 as a light patrol or border patrol vehicle, personnel or cargo carrier, communications vehicle or ambulance, he said.

It’s not a vehicle you’d use in a high-IED threat environment, he said, but it would serve a lot of missions that you don’t need a Humvee for. Also, he said, the Army could own three J8s for the cost of one Humvee."

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/005050.html

[Krogort]

Pour moi ça semble évident qu'il faut deux véhicules pour remplacer les Humvee:

-Un blindé et MRAP pour faire la guerre qui remplacera les actuels humvee blindés.

-Une grosse Jeep comme voiture de liaison/logistique qui sera uniquement utilisée aux états unis, et dans les pays en paix x ou sur les grosses bases.

C'est un peu overkill d'acheter uniquement des montres style M-ATV pour faire de la liaison entre deux bases aux Etats Unis, pareil pour nous (dans une moindre mesure cela dit) avec le PVP qui est censé remplacer le P4.

[g4lly]

C'est le modèle civil (devenu invendable aux USA à cause de sa consommation d'eesence) qui passe sous contrôle chinois, pas le véhicule militaire.

2 nouvelles :

- Le choix pour le JLTV n'est toujours pas fait mais techniquement le programme avance vite : http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,202788,00.html

- Chrysler propose de remplacer les Hummer par des jeep J8 militarisés :

"The Jeep J8 is a military version of Chrysler’s Jeep Wrangler. It comes with both diesel and gasoline engines, said Ken Bergquist, a vice president with JGMS. The company is pitching the J8 as a light patrol or border patrol vehicle, personnel or cargo carrier, communications vehicle or ambulance, he said.

It’s not a vehicle you’d use in a high-IED threat environment, he said, but it would serve a lot of missions that you don’t need a Humvee for. Also, he said, the Army could own three J8s for the cost of one Humvee."

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/005050.html

Hummer est une marque de GM/DaimlerChrysler ... L'ancien proprio de hummer AM Genral  ne produit plus de H1 civil depuis 2006, seul les H2 sur base ford sont encore en vente. Les H3 sont produit par GM directement.

Ni AM Corporation ni AM General ne deviennent chinois§. Seule la marque Hummer a été racheté et probablemlent les droit sur les modeles H2 et H3.

Les Hummer militaire ... modele H1 original sont depuis 82 produit par LTV qui récupéré la filliale AMC ... suite au rachat par renault de AMG via Jeep.

[g4lly]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/12/high-tech-armored-off-roader-key-to-afghan-surge/

The new troops headed to Afghanistan are important, sure. But unless those troops can get around the country without getting blown up, this latest surge is going nowhere fast. Which is why the Pentagon is in the middle of a crash program to build and ship to Afghanistan a new generation of bomb-resistant off-road vehicle, equipped with everything from composite armor to “electronic keels.” If all goes to plan, they should have around 1,000 of the high-tech rides in the country by the end of the year.

Right after the start of the original surge in Iraq, the Pentagon launched a breakneck effort to send thousands and thousands of hulking Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles to that warzone. The vehicles were credited with saving countless lives. But the rides are too bulky for Afghanistan’s rough terrain and primitive roadways. The suspensions took a beating, and the top-heavy MRAPs were prone to rollover. The Pentagon launched a quickfire challenge for a lighter, more nimble blastproof ride, dubbed the MRAP All Terrain Vehicle (clunky acronym: M-ATV).

Oshkosh Corp. won the contest, and snared the first delivery order in late June. The winning design was a 4×4 built around the chassis of the Medium Tactical Vehicle Replacement, a seven-ton truck that had already seen service in Afghanistan. It shares the TAK-4 independent suspension system with the MTVR.  The new vehicle also has a battle-tested composite armor kit designed by Plasan — that’s an Israeli firm, owned by a kibbutz. The same company also makes armor for the MTVR.

Even though it’s considered a “light” MRAP, the M-ATV is still a beast: It has a curb weight of just under 25,000 lb, and it’s powered by a 370-hp Caterpillar C7. It seats four passengers, plus one gunner; and has a central tire inflation system with four terrain settings to improve traction on unimproved roads. It’s not exactly a speed demon — going to zero to 30 miles per hour in 11 seconds. But that’s not bad for a thing weighing twelve tons. Max speed is 65 miles per hour; max range is 320 miles. Each one costs about $1.4 million, fully loaded.

That includes inside each vehicle an “electronic keel,” based on a gigabit LAN, that networks together all sorts of mil-gadgets — from sniper detectors to “blue force trackers” that plot friendly vehicles on a digital map. It should tie together any “Internet Protocol (IP) based weapon, communication module or sensor package without additional integration costs,” according to the manufacturer. Think of it as a giant USB hub for war-making.

To get the high-priority vehicles to Afghanistan, the Air Force has to ship them on C-17 Globemaster III heavy cargo aircraft.

Thus far, the company says it has been delivering ahead of schedule: In a recent news release, Oshkosh said it was on track to meet the December target of 1,000 vehicles, with production levels remaining that high through April 2010.

All told 6,219 of the new vehicles are on order. In a recent visit to the Oshkosh plant in Wisconsin, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates praised workers for delivering the M-ATV so rapidly.

“In July, this factory produced 46 M-ATVs,” he said. “Last month, that figure rose to more than 380. And November output is expected to exceed 660 vehicles, all toward meeting a total military requirement of more than 6,600. Peak production of 1,000 vehicles per month starts next month.”

Added Gates: “The wars don’t stop for the holidays, and neither will you.”

[Manu]

Le M-ATV à côté d'un humvee :

D'autres photos ici.

C'est quand même abusé de faire un engin de cette taille pour 4/5 hommes. Pourquoi ne pas avoir choisi un PVP HD/XL fabriqué sous licence par exemple ?

[Chris.]

ça protège peut-être pas assez ?

[g4lly]

Le M-ATV à côté d'un humvee :

D'autres photos ici.

C'est quand même abusé de faire un engin de cette taille pour 4/5 hommes. Pourquoi ne pas avoir choisi un PVP HD/XL fabriqué sous licence par exemple ?

ça protège peut-être pas assez ?

Physique élementaire ... l'accéleration du a une force non volumique tel un blast est inversement proportionnelle a la masse. En gros plus c'est lourd moins l'équipage encaisse de "choc". La regle sud africaine veut 700kg par kg d'IED ... 35t pour 50kg par exemple ... si la charge est placée juste dessous.

La seconde chose c'est que c'est un vehicule développé en urgence sur la base d'un vehicule déjà largement diffusé dans l'armée US ... un camion le MTVR.

Enfin les US patrouillent par 5 dans les vehicules légers, ils ne souhaitaient pas changer d'organisation.

Résultat ils se sont permis de développer un véhicule haut sur patte mais néanmoins vraiment tout terrain, avec un gros blindage et une certaine marge pour l'équipement - qui est déjà pléthorique. Tout en restant dans les 14t ... masse au dela de laquelle les pistes on du mal ... c'est grosso modo la masse des petit camion utilisé dans les campagne du tiers monde, et ça permet de passer la ou les locaux passent.

La solution Nexter est pas plus petite ... l'Aravis est pas plus petit pas plus léger ... sauf qu'il a 7 place parce qu'ils ont aménager le "coffre" alors que les US on laissé un pickup bâché.

Le PVP n'est pas du tout fait pour ce job, il doit remplacer les P4 ... pour des liaisons a l'arriere, et resiste au petite calibre et aux mines apers. L'équivalent du MATV est plutot a chercher du coté AVXL.

[Berkut]

Je le trouve bine ramassé ce humvy, ils auraient pas joué sur la garde au sol pour accentuer la différence?

[Babou]

nan pas vraiment ramassé... avec tous les surblindages sur-trucs brouilleurs et autres ils prends du poids et les suspensions suffit qu'elles soient sous cette charge depuis quelque mois et c'est rabaissé ;)

[Drakene]

Quand on connait la taille d'un Hummvee... J'imagine même pas le M-ATV  

En plus qu'il est moche avec ça tête de nasique  :smileyquivomit:

Tien, au fait il est stanag quoi, devant-derrière-sur-les-coté-en-dessous ?

[Babou]

Quand on connais la taille d'un Hummvee... J'imagine même pas le M-ATV  

imagine un bon Maxxpro a coté ou autre MRAP.. :P

:smileyquivomit:   gnéé.??

Tien, au fait il est stanag quoi, devant-derrière-sur-les-coté-en-dessous ?

j'avais entendu dire 2 balistique avec possibilité de monter en 3 et 3 pour les mines... ;)

je viens de trouver mine 2A... :-[