L'Inde

[g4lly]

Nos chaînes devraient (si nécessaire et rentable) passer à 2 voire 3 machines par mois. Mais il me semble que les indiens veulent assembler eux-même la majorité de leurs machines... non ?

Ca arrangerait probablement le mindef d'envoyer toute la prod en Inde pendant un an d'ailleurs ... permettant de retarder les commandes et livraisons pour nous, tout en laissant la chaine tourner a plein.

[JASHUGAN]

Faut attrendre le recoupement d'info, si il est tout seul a annoncer ca, on en a plein des comme ca,

D'accord avec toi zx (et aussi avec Claudio  :lol:) mais là l'auteur cite le Technical Evaluations Commitee (TEC) de l'armée de l'air indienne, ça change des sources anonymes.

Autre chose,

j'ai remarqué que dans son texte l'auteur parlait du RBE2 AESA avec 1001 modules :

the THALES-built Radar à Balayage Electronique-2 (RBE-2) AESA-MMR—having an antenna array equipped with 1,001 transmit/receive modules

Dassault/Thales ont fait la promo en Inde avec ce chiffre ? Sur le forum les membres avaient compté environ 800 modules et quelques sur la photo de la maquette du RBE2 AESA+OSF NG.

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/02/thales-aesa-rbe-2-modules-pattern.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rlfPgilwzMw/TVM583jxmqI/AAAAAAAAAfM/NVCH3pxeKTs/s1600/2d8c6f40-377b-41bd-a179-8d63cf1c9dbc.Full.jpg

De quoi rallumer le débat ?

[JASHUGAN]

Et comme on n' a pas les moyens financiers des américains, la partie s'annonce délicate...

La dette américaine commence à inquiéter les marchés, ils vont peut-être devoir serrer la ceinture très fort.

[zx]

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/04/eurofighters-ground-realities.html

[zx]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kYJc4tSQ7Hs/TbCDMbmixsI/AAAAAAAAM-s/vMmKmkvt9Ww/s1600/MMRCA_navy.jpg

[zx]

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories971.htm

Will Russia’s MiG abandon the Indian race?

Moscow. The Indian tender for 126 MMRCAs (medium multi-role combat aircraft) to replace its ageing MiGs was announced long ago, but only now is the real intrigue unfolding. Competition between two main rivals - the United States’ F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Russia’s MiG-35 has been stiff.

The intrigue heightened after Russia announced its MiG-35 would not be on display at an air show in Bangalore. Many experts took the absence of a “real live” MiG as a sign that Russia was pulling out of the race.

Leading entries compared

The Russian and U.S. fighters each have their own strengths. The Super Hornet’s design maturity is indeed impressive. It has been in serial production for over 10 years and carries an active phased-array radar (APAR), or what is generally known as the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) combat radar, which is also in serial production. The United States is also in a position to start manufacturing the aircraft for an Indian order at short notice.

(Notably however, AESA is THE key requirement for the Indian tender. At present, this technology features only on three aircraft in the world, all of them US, Lockheed Martin’s F 22 Raptor and F 16 Block 60 with UAE, and Boeing’s F/A 18 E/F Super Hornet or its electronic warfare version EA 18G Growler).

The MiG-35’s advantages include India’s experience of MiG-29s and the fact that maintenance infrastructure for them is in place across the country, as well as Russia’s readiness to share production technology with India. The MiG-35’s main shortcoming is its APAR: it is still in development and this is set to continue for a year or two. Also, despite its MiG-29 origins, the MiG-35 still needs refining before it can go into serial production.

Fundamentally, the only thing the MiG-35 shares with the previous MiG-29 family is its appearance. Its equipment and facilities have undergone a radical overhaul. The aircraft is now capable of using the very latest air-to-surface munitions, making it a multi-role fighter, unlike the MiG-29, which is considered an air-supremacy fighter.

The cockpit, in line with the current fashion, is equipped with multifunctional liquid-crystal display screens, while the HOTAS (hands on throttle-and-stick) system allows the pilot to manage all the weapons systems without taking their hands off the aircraft and engine controls.

Vectored-thrust engines make the plane much more maneuverable, increasing its chances of winning in close combat and avoiding longrange missile fire.

The fact that a two-seat version - the MiG-35D - is available, with the same kind of avionics as the singleseater, means that groups consisting of one- and two-seater aircraft can be formed, which are capable of carrying out highly complicated missions. In such formations the two-seaters become command planes, coordinating the moves of a flight or squadron.

Boeing meanwhile ...

Unlike Russia, which decided not to put its MiG-35 on display in Bangalore, the United States has stepped up its activity and unveiled the latest version of the F/A-18, or the Silent Hornet, upscaled with stealth technology.

These warplanes are kitted out with conformal fuel tanks, enhanced performance engines, spherical missile laser warning (SM/LW), enclosed weapons pads and next generation cockpits complete with internal infrared search and tracking systems

The aircraft on display at the show is the first to be developed as part of the International Super Hornet Roadmap program, which Boeing announced at the Farnborough air show last year. The fighter is being touted as a new generation in the Super Hornet family, which will feature improved combat survivability, situational awareness and performance for customers.

Boeing’s vice president Vivek Lall said that if India signs a contract with Boeing under the MMRCA tender it will be able to obtain this technology. “We are creating a platform which will be combat worthy for the next 30 or 40 years,” he said.

This announcement is unprecedented for an American company - until now only the United States’ closest allies have been granted full access to this kind of technology. All the others had to make do with what they were sold.

Tender results are expected to be announced this summer. They are particularly important for the MiG: should the MiG-35 fail to get an export order, Sukhoi aircraft will be left in a position of unassailable dominance on Russia’s combat aviation market.

Despite the unquestioned potential of Sukhoi platforms and their proven quality, such a monopoly is unlikely to be helpful.

[arctor]

Dassault/Thales ont fait la promo en Inde avec ce chiffre ? Sur le forum les membres avaient compté environ 800 modules et quelques sur la photo de la maquette du RBE2 AESA+OSF NG.

De quoi rallumer le débat ?

Je croyais qu'on était tombés d'accord sur le fait qu'on NE PEUT PAS compter les modules sur les maquettes et les photos de RBE2-AESA. Pourquoi? Parce que c'est classifié, et que ça risque pas de se retrouver sur un stand ou une brochure marketing.  =)

[zx]

Can The M-MRCA Be Completely Clean? No

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/04/can-m-mrca-be-completely-clean-no.html

BOEING DEFENSE: 1. The infamous Darleen Druyun episode, in which the Pentagon bureaucrat helped Boeing during tanker lease negotiations, while getting the company to pony up a post-retirement job opportunity for her and her family. Boeing made her a veep. Both she and Boeing's then CFO Mike Sears served time in prison. 2. In 2002, Boeing was accused of paying Choi Kyu-sun, a former aide to South Korea's President Kim $12-million to ensure that the country ordered F-15s, which Seoul ultimately did.

DASSAULT AVIATION: In 2002, as part of the same deal mentioned above, Dassault stood accused of paying a South Korean air force colonel approximately $10,000 for information on the country's F-X fighter competition. The colonel was court martialled, and Dassault hightailed it from South Korea vowing never to do business with the country again.

EUROFIGHTER: 1. Allegations of corruption in a deal with Austria. 2. Allegations of slush fund bribery against BAE Systems in the sale of Eurofighters to Saudi Arabia as part of the Al-Salam deal. Compounded by the fact that the UK Serious Frauds Office (SFO) decided to call off investigations in the "wider public interest", so the truth may never be known.

LOCKHEED-MARTIN: 1. In 2009, Lockheed's India head reportedly bolted from the country after being found in possession of MMRCA documents that he shouldn't have had access to. Lockheed refuted all the allegations, though the issue wasn't followed up by the Indian MoD. There's a book (I''ve just ordered it) about Lockheed-Martin's practices.

SAAB: Saab has faced bribery/corruption charges in connection with the sale of Gripen fighter jets to South Africa, Hungary (through BAE Systems) and Czech Republic.

UAC / RAC-MiG: 1. Was embroiled in a bribery scandal in the supply of MiG-27 jets to the Sri Lankan Air Force in 2007. 2. Bribery scandal in the supply of eight MiG-29 jets to the Bangladesh Air Force in 1999.

This list is only illustrative. Enough has happened in the M-MRCA competition so far to suggest that it hasn't been completely kosher.

[TMor]

Dassault vs Boeing en 2002...

10000$ vs 12 millions.

Un qui perd, et porte plainte, l'autre qui l'emporte.

Heu... Il me semblait que DA avait été innocenté en plus.

Avec un minimum de sens critique, moi je dis... :lol:

[Ciders]

C'est entièrement de notre faute ? :lol:

[move]Je demande l'asile à la Corée du Nord, promis ! [/move]

[Skw]

Dassault vs Boeing en 2002...

10000$ vs 12 millions.

Un qui perd, et porte plainte, l'autre qui l'emporte.

Qu'est ce que tu veux, Tmor ? Quand on veut la jouer sure, il faut y mettre les zéros :)

MC Solaar, du temps où son écriture était de la dentelle :

"les héros sont des petits voleurs

Ils ont juste rajouté quatre ou cinq zéros"

[dailymotion=425,350]x1ylrc_mc-solaar-gangster-moderne_music[/dailymotion]

[zx]

The M-MRCA In Numbers

As the M-MRCA fighter competition winds down, I thought it would be nice to put it down in numbers. Do comment with your additions.

6: The number of contending aircraft.

8: The number of competing nations.

126: The number of aircraft the Indian government officially says it wants to buy.

200-220: The number that sundry analysts believe will be the the "real" order size.

$9,500,000,000: The number of dollars (at the current exchange rate) the Indian government has committed to the deal.

$4,750,000,000: The number of dollars (at the current exchange rate) the winning contender will need to plough back into India as offsets.

18: The number of aircraft that will be manufactured by the winning bidder.

108: The number of aircraft that will be cookie-cut under license by HAL at a spanking new facility.

0: What HAL has needed to do to be the license partner in the MMRCA.

3: The number of years it took the government to decide that a competition made more sense than an IAF-recommended purchase of more Mirage-2000s.

4: The number if IAF Air Marshals who openly rue that decision to this day.

4: The number of companies that received the Indian RFI in 2004 (Dassault, Lockheed-Martin, RAC-MiG, Saab).

2: The number of companies that elbowed their way into the competition shortly thereafter (Boeing, Eurofighter).

2 / 1 / 6 / 1 / 0 / 5: The number of air forces that use fly the F/A-18 Super Hornet / Rafale / Typhoon / F-16 Block 60 / MiG-35 / Gripen.

2: The number of contending aircraft with operational AESA radars.

4: The number of contending aircraft that promise to deliver AESA radars better than the American ones.

2: The number of vendors who explicitly state that they will release all avionics/sensor source codes to the IAF as part of any deal.

46: The number of times in 2006-07 that the then IAF chief Shashindra Pal Tyagi was quoted to have said "buying fighters is not like buying vegetables in a market".

242: The number of times Defence Minister AK Antony, in response to questions about the delayed RFP, nodded genially and said, "It is in process".

3: The number of years it took for the government to send out an RFP after receiving information about potential contenders.

211: The number of pages in the RFP that was released in August 2007.

4: The number of defence journalists who claimed to have a copy of the RFP on the day it was released.

0: The number of defence journalists who actually had a copy of the RFP on the day it was released.

(Still counting): The number of times sundry officials from the IAF and MoD have pointed to "front-runners" in the competition.

4: The number of times competing countries have urged abandonment of the tender in favour of a separate exclusive deal. (-- Saurabh Joshi)

10: The number (on a scale of ten) that depicts just how badly IAF chief Pradeep Naik wants the MMRCA contract to be signed before he retires in July this year.

0: The number (on a scale of ten) that depicts the chances of that actually happening.

0: The optimism co-efficient of vendors that the IAF chief's word holds any more sway.

<1: The chances on a scale of 10 of the deal being concluded this calendar year.

22: The number of times the current IAF chief has expressed his pride over the evaluation process, and said he will patent it.

186: The number of times this blog has posted about the competition. Ok, now 187.

~421: The number of misleading leaks, rumours and patent falsehoods that have been deliberately put out by certain officers in the IAF and MoD acquisition wing.

8: The number of times the IAF and MoD have contradicted each other over aspects of the selection process.

112: The number of times the European competitors have described the Americans as "aggressive".

643: The number of test points evaluated on the six aircaft during field trials.

2: The number of years it took for field trials to commence after RFPs had been issued.

7: The number of times Lockheed-Martin took pot shots at the Gripen.

7: The number of times Gripen took pot shots at Lockheed-Martin.

2: The number of fantasy eliminations - Gripen and Rafale - that turned out to be false.

1: The number of times commercial bids have been revised.

10: Chances on a scale of ten that commercial bids will be required to be extended.

11,441: The number of reports about the MMRCA in the mainstream Indian media.

11,441: The number of reports about the MMRCA in the mainstream Indian media that were based largely on speculation.

Do feel free to add your own

[fox49]

MMRCA downselect  

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/04/flash-rafale-typhoon-move-to-next-level.html

un petit peu d'espoir???

[Chevalier Gilles]

relis ce que zx viens de poster et ajoute ou il faut  :lol: :lol: :lol:

[TMor]

Bon, c'est clair d'après cet article :

http://www.stratpost.com/india-selects-ef-rafale-for-mmrca-shortlist

Seuls les deux qui ont satisfait aux évaluations techniques sont gardés.

Je me demande si un avantage de l'un ou l'autre sur le plan technique peut se traduire en points d'avance pour le reste de la sélection...

Le match ultime.  :lol:

[fox49]

relis ce que zx viens de poster et ajoute ou il faut  :lol: :lol: :lol:

bon c'est vrais que j'ai un peu de retard, mais je ne crois pas m'être trompé de sujet.  ;)

Heu j'aurais une question...

ça fait pas "bizarre" que l'Eurofighter soit sélectionné dans le M-MultirôleRCA ... J'aurais plus vu le F-18.

[zx]

StratPost can also confirm that according to the IAF and the ministry, the other aircraft in the fray, the US Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, the US Lockheed Martin Corporation’s F-16, the Russian MiG-35 and the Swedish SAAB’s Gripen did not pass the technical evaluation conducted by the IAF.

:'( :'( :'( :'(

Heu j'aurais une question...

ça fait pas "bizarre" que l'Eurofighter soit sélectionné dans le M-MultirôleRCA ... J'aurais plus vu le F-18.

il faut bien un lievre, chaque fois que j'entend mmrca  tyffie par ci, tyffie par la.

Reste a savoir, quand est ce qu'on connaitra l'heureux elu, c'est la que j'aimerai bien entendre les essai avec

un raffy equipé de 2xm88 9t

[fox49]

:'( :'( :'( :'(

il faut bien un lievre, chaque fois que j'entend mmrca  tyffie par ci, tyffie par la.

Refaitlemoile???!!! 

les 4 autres sont bien exclus pour technical failure...

est-ce qu'on vas encore servir de lièvre.... c'est possible, mais encore une fois il est ou le Multirôle du Tyffie?

[zx]

Refaitlemoile???!!!  

les 4 autres sont bien exclus pour technical failure...

Woui, je le refais, ;) ils ont ratés l'exam et ils sont bon pour redoubler mais ca confirme des rumeurs ancienne.

je reprends le lien a Tmor

http://www.stratpost.com/india-selects-ef-rafale-for-mmrca-shortlist

Pour le multirole de l'eurofighter, c'est pour 2017, pour le sea eurofighter dans 10 ans.

Pour le rafale, multirole y a tout, pret à l'emploi,  il ne manque que le m88 9t.

Affaire à suivre ^^

[TMor]

Bon, d'après notre amis brésilien Pepe Rezende, le Rafale avait tout pété avec 2 fois moins de vol que le SuperBug. Le  Typhoon avait bien joué aussi, sauf sur l'air-sol. Ceci dit, là n'est pas la question, les deux ont été satisfaisant.

Je me demande si l'avance du Rafale sur l'air-sol a encore du poids maintenant !

[zx]

Si je me rappelle le mig35 avait des problemes moteurs, les tests ont été particulierement anarchique avec le gripen

puis repris avec le gripen NG, les indiens n'ont pas aimés.

l'ef2000 n'integre pas la guerre electronique et la furtivité, la frappe nuke, c'est en faveur du raffy. un match entre

les deux, ca fini mal pour le tyffie, compte tenu des confrontations antérieure.

[TMor]

Si ces considérations entrent encore en compte ! Les deux "suffisent"... A mon avis c'est maintenant une question de prix/offsets et tous les trucs que je n'aime pas !

[zx]

l'ideal et qu'ils achetent les deux.

[fox49]

Woui, je le refais, ;) ils ont ratés l'exam et ils sont bon pour redoubler mais ca confirme des rumeurs ancienne.

Désolé, j'avais mal lu, je croyais que justement le F-18 passais.... a dyslexie quand tu nous tien  :P

Comme tu le dis Tmor, ce serrait intéressant de savoir si des bonus perf seront accordés à l'un ou l'autre des concurrent. Après tout l'EF n'est pas si léger que ça avec son gros radar dans le nez  :-[ (mais bons, je crois qu'il n'y a pas photo, le Rafale a plus d'options...

allume cigare de la victoire c'est une option qui n'as pas encore été testé, espérons que les indiens l'inaugurent  ;) )

[Philippe Top-Force]

Si ces considérations entrent encore en compte ! Les deux "suffisent"... A mon avis c'est maintenant une question de prix/offsets et tous les trucs que je n'aime pas !

Comme par exemple, la rénovation de 51 Mirage Indiens Thales/DA, la vente de 197 Fennec par Eurocopter France, la proposition pour 6 A330-200 MRTT, les 3 autres SCORPENE en sus des 6 déjà vendus + 6 autres SSK AIP/MESMA DCNS, ...et 126 Rafale.OOPS ! On ne va pas s'en remettre si on les place tous.