L'Inde

[zx]

un article intéressant en passant, un peu plus général qui fait le point sur les bataille des appels d'offres coté usa

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/u-budget-cuts-sharpen-battle-fighter-jet-exports-051802918.html

Purchase decisions in the coming months from South Korea and Brazil, as well as the finalization of a huge Indian contract tentatively awarded to France, could shape the balance of power in the aerial combat market for years to come.

MMRCA not over yet : Eurofighter chief Casolini

http://idrw.org/?p=14013

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ila-eurofighter-chief-casolini-outlines-priorities-376246/

The four-nation Eurofighter consortium is within weeks of submitting its response to Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK on a package of capability enhancements which could prove pivotal to its success in winning future international deals with the combat aircraft.

Almost 340 Eurofighters have been delivered so far to the programme’s launch partners, plus export customers Austria and Saudi Arabia, and the type saw its first combat use in 2011, over Libya.

Following a lengthy period of promotion by suppliers, including EADS defence arm Cassidian, a proposal to add new equipment to boost the type’s multi-role credentials finally gained traction at the Farnborough air show in July.

To go beyond a Phase 1 Enhancement programme (P1E) already under way, the work will introduce the ability for the Eurofighter to carry new weapons and sensors, with the latter to ultimately include an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar; a piece of technology increasingly mandated by potential buyers.

“At present, we are finalising our response to NETMA [the NATO Eurofighter and Tornado Management Agency] and the nations,” says Eurofighter chief executive Enzo Casolini. “In July, we received the request for quotation and we will answer by the end of October with the target to possibly sign a contract by mid-2013.”

Developed from the common requirements of the partner air forces, the multi-phase process will start with an initial release of P1E(a) capability late this year, with full capability for P1E(b) following by the end of 2013.

“The further enhancement programme phases are based on a common programme strategy, which includes core customers’ and export customers’ requirements,” Casolini explains. “The most important element of the work is delivering the planned E-Scan capabilities through a common integrated development and implementation programme, whilst enabling cost-effective tailoring to meet specific national operational requirements.” The AESA array should be ready for operational use around 2015.

Defeat in India’s medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contest by the Dassault Rafale in January was one factor which contributed to the P1E decision, as a Cassidian-led Eurofighter Typhoon bid had been strongly favoured to land the 126-unit deal. Discussions continue between New Delhi and the French supplier over a contract.

“We have great respect for the professionalism of the Indian government and the Indian air force in how they conducted the technical MMRCA evaluation,” Casolini says. “However, we still believe that a clarification of our commercial offer would convince the Indian customer of a greater commercial attractiveness of the Eurofighter offer.

“Cassidian, BAE Systems and Alenia Aermacchi, alongside the four governments, stand ready to engage in case we should be invited by the Indian government. So far, nothing has been signed. Therefore the deal is not yet done.”

As a result, Eurofighter will participate in the Aero India event in Bengaluru in February. “It is an excellent air show, and it will be an opportunity for us to maintain our presence in the country,” Casolini says.

“Competition on the global market is very tough, but we are confident that we can clock-in a few more contracts and customers because we have an excellent product,” he notes.

Eurofighter now has sales campaigns running in nations including Bulgaria, Kuwait, Malaysia, Qatar, Romania, South Korea and the United Arab Emirates, while the UK is also close to finalising a government-to-government deal to supply 12 Typhoons to Oman.

“The worldwide market potential for next-generation combat aircraft is approximately 800 aircraft in the next 20 years, and we expect to gain about 25% market share.”

Describing the Typhoon as “a powerful and reliable swing-role combat aircraft”, he adds: “Eurofighter is proven in global operations and international co-development and trusted to deliver performance as well as political and industrial partnership.”

With budgets tight among its home customers, earlier this year Eurofighter agreed to reduce its high delivery rate for the type through its completion of 112 Tranche 3A production examples.

Asked whether he believes Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK will follow this with an originally planned Tranche 3B deal under a background of tight fiscal constraints, Casolini says the consortium has time on its side.

“Current production of the Eurofighter is secured until the end of 2017, and the deadline to the Tranche 3B contract signing has been moved to December 2013 thanks to the slowdown. Any speculations before that deadline would be inappropriate,” he adds.

[Philippe Top-Force]

Charles E rappelle dans son ITW http://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/video-quels-enjeux-pour-la-defense lors des universités d'été sur la défense que DA est le fournisseur de l'Inde depuis 1953, que le programme indien ce sont 126 Rafale fermes et 63 options, plus des besoins supérieurs à ça.

Donc probablement plus de 189 Rafale.

Charles avertit qu'au delà de la presse et de ce qui se raconte ,ce contrat est le plus complexe que DA à à négocier.

[fox49]

Merci pour le resume, ce contrat serait plus complex que les mirages 2000-9... O0

[TMor]

J'adore Edelstenne. Je ne sais pas qui il est personnellement, tout ça, mais je trouve qu'il présente super bien, il est respectueux et mesuré, et c'est d'autant plus drôle quand il lance une pique sur un adversaire.

[glitter]

Sur Keypublishing, il y a un sujet sur les couts compares du Tyhpoon et du Rafale.

Quelqu'un a sortis ce lien

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-02-10/india/31045422_1_rafale-mmrca-complex-project

On en avait parle il y a 50 pages (page 135 pour etre precis), mais j'avait pas percute  tout de suite, 22% de moins pour le Rafale, c'est GIGANTESQUE. Je pense que ce chiffre est totalement officieux, non ?

[prof.566]

Sur Keypublishing, il y a un sujet sur les couts compares du Tyhpoon et du Rafale.

Quelqu'un a sortis ce lien

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-02-10/india/31045422_1_rafale-mmrca-complex-project

On en avait parle il y a 50 pages (page 135 pour etre precis), mais j'avait pas percute  tout de suite, 22% de moins pour le Rafale, c'est GIGANTESQUE. Je pense que ce chiffre est totalement officieux, non ?

Oui c'est officieux :lol:

[TMor]

On avait ça oui. ~22% de plus que le Rafale s'ils prenaient le Typhoon.

Et chez nous, je ne sais plus qui a sorti le chiffre de ~15% de moins que le Typhoon, s'ils prenaient le Rafale.

Ça se tient.

En revanche, on avait aussi eu une histoire comme quoi tout pourrait se boucler plus vite si l'écart était supérieur à 5%. Or, on a attendu quelques mois supplémentaires. Je ne sais plus à quel endroit on compare des prix fly-away ou sur l'offre globale, et à mon grand regret, difficile de dire comment on s'en est tirés. Alors d'autres le font pour nous  :lol:

[glitter]

On avait ça oui. ~22% de plus que le Rafale s'ils prenaient le Typhoon.

Et chez nous, je ne sais plus qui a sorti le chiffre de ~15% de moins que le Typhoon, s'ils prenaient le Rafale.

Ça se tient.

En revanche, on avait aussi eu une histoire comme quoi tout pourrait se boucler plus vite si l'écart était supérieur à 5%. Or, on a attendu quelques mois supplémentaires. Je ne sais plus à quel endroit on compare des prix fly-away ou sur l'offre globale, et à mon grand regret, difficile de dire comment on s'en est tirés. Alors d'autres le font pour nous  :lol:

La difference est certainement sur le cout globale. Donc, Rafale un peu moins cher, consommant nettement moins (moteur moins puissants) et deux ou trois bricoles, deja 15%, ca calme.

[Castor]

On avait ça oui. ~22% de plus que le Rafale s'ils prenaient le Typhoon.

Et chez nous, je ne sais plus qui a sorti le chiffre de ~15% de moins que le Typhoon, s'ils prenaient le Rafale.

Ça se tient.

En revanche, on avait aussi eu une histoire comme quoi tout pourrait se boucler plus vite si l'écart était supérieur à 5%. Or, on a attendu quelques mois supplémentaires. Je ne sais plus à quel endroit on compare des prix fly-away ou sur l'offre globale, et à mon grand regret, difficile de dire comment on s'en est tirés. Alors d'autres le font pour nous  :lol:

La différence de 5% n'a jamais été à ma connaissance un argument MMRCA.

Je me souviens que John Lake avait beaucoup utilisé cet argument sur Keypub à l’époque. Je reste persuadé qu'il s'agit d'une confusion avec le contrat des ravitailleurs américain ou toute offre inferieur de plus de 5 % à celle de la concurrence était automatiquement gagnante.

Il faut aussi prendre en compte que certain des développements lié au contrat pour l'Eurofighter devaient encore être développés ce qui n'a pas manqué d’augmenter la facture.

[zx]

http://www.stratpost.com/iaf-looks-to-replace-crashed-mirage-fighter-jets

Although the case for the acquisition of the two single-engine trainers is still at a preliminary stage, the IAF is 'desirous' of getting their 'numbers up from 49 to 51' again and is planning to make a pitch for the aircraft to the Ministry of Defense.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) is looking to replace the two Mirage 2000 trainer aircraft, which crashed earlier this year.

While the case for the acquisition of the two single-engine trainers is still at a preliminary stage, it is understood that the IAF, ‘desirous’ of getting their ‘numbers up from 49 to 51′ again, is planning to make a pitch for the aircraft to the Ministry of Defense.

Sources told StratPost that the imperative for the purchase was made all the more compelling because the two aircraft that crashed were trainer versions. Until the crashes, the IAF had 10 trainer aircraft, spread over each of the three IAF Mirage 2000 squadrons. Now down to eight, these aircraft are essential for training fresh pilots on the aircraft type. With the shortfall caused by the two crashes, the IAF has decided to ask for the purchase of the two aircraft.

Since, the aircraft is no longer manufactured by the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM), Dassault, the IAF is planning to identify a foreign air force operating the aircraft, to which the sale can be proposed.

Although the aircraft is operated by nine foreign air forces, only the French Armée de l’Air, and the air forces of the United Arab Emirates, Greece and Taiwan operate them in any significant numbers.

The IAF has plans to operate its Mirage 2000 fleet over at least the next two decades. Last year, India ordered a USD 2.4 billion upgrade package from Dassault and Thales for its Mirage 2000 aircraft, to match the Mirage 2000-5 configuration, followed by a separate weapons package worth USD 1.23 billion for 450 MBDA MICA air-to-air missiles.

Keeping it French, the Dassault-built successor to the Mirage 2000, the Rafale, was selected earlier this year, as the lowest technically qualified bidder in the IAF contest for an estimated USD 20 billion order for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), beating the Eurofighter Typhoon on price.

The other competitors, the Russian MiG-35, the Swedish Saab Gripen, and US aircraft, the Lockheed Martin F-16 and the Boeing F/A-18, were eliminated from the contest after the technical trials.

[Philippe Top-Force]

http://www.journal-aviation.com/actualites/19004-l-inde-souhaite-de-nouveaux-hawk

[zx]

IAF to finalise Rafale fighter deal this fiscal

http://www.prokerala.com/news/articles/a328960.html

The Indian Air Force (IAF) would finalise the multi-billion dollar contract with Dassault Aviation of France during this fiscal (2012-13) for the supply of its 126 Rafale fighters, Air chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne said Thursday.

"The negotiations are absolutely on. We hope that at least this financial year we should be able to finish the negotiations and finalise the deal," he said.

"It is a very complex project, as we are discussing various areas like transfer of technology, the offset (clause), what HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) will do and the cost as well," Browne told reporters on the margins of an event here.

The 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) are set to phase out the ageing MiG-21 fleet of the Soviet era and enhance the air force's strike power.

"Costing is also being discussed. As per the RFP requirement, costing is part of the negotiations going on with Rafale fighter, which was selected through a global bidding," Browne said.

Earlier, he received the indigenous airborne radar system - Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) - developed by the state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and mounted on an Embraer aircraft of Brazil here.

Though the cost price of the Rafale fighters has not been spelt out officially, the deal is estimated to be a whopping $20 billion due to inordinate delays in the bidding and selection process.

Of the 126 fighters, Dassault is expected to deliver 18 in fly-away condition and licence the state-run defence behemoth HAL to manufacture the remaining 108 aircraft at its Bangalore complex.

Rafale emerged the lowest of the two bidders that were short-listed, Typhoon of the European consortium EADS Cassidian being the other contender.

When the IAF signs the contract, it will be the first export order for Dassault as Rafale is the frontline combat jet of the French air force.

Rafale, along with Typhoon, had in April 2011 edged out the Boeing F/A-18 and Lockheed Martin F-16, the Saab' Gripen and United Aircraft Corporation's MiG-35 in the MMRCA tender to emerge the front runners.

[zx]

En francais. en clair c'est sur la piste de roulage. Les indiens nous ont prouvés qu'ils tenaient jusqu'à présent leur timing.

L'Inde finaliserait son achat des Rafale français avant avril 2013

http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/l-inde-finaliserait-son-achat-des-rafale-francais-avant-avril-2013.N182471

Selon les médias indiens, l'armée de l'air indienne a confirmé que les négociations avec Dassault Aviation, le constructeur du Rafale, avançaient bien. Le contrat MMRCA, estimé à 20 milliards de dollars, pourrait être conclu définitivement d'ici au mois d'avril prochain.

La voie semble toute tracée pour Dassault Aviation. Et les doutes concernant les intentions de l'Inde dans l'achat des 126 avions de chasse Rafale balayés.

L'Indian Air Force (IAF), l'armée de l'air indienne, aurait confirmé le 20 septembre la finalisation du contrat avec Dassault Aviation dans les mois à venir. "Les négociations sont encore en cours. Nous espérons qu'au plus tard à la fin de cette année fiscale (en avril en Inde, ndlr), nous serons en mesure de clôturer les négociations et de finaliser le contrat", a confié à l'agence de presse IANS  le chef d'état-major de l'IAF, le Marshal Norman Anil Kumar Browne.

"C'est un projet très complexe, et nos discussions (avec Dassault) porte sur plusieurs champs comme le transfert de technologies, l'offset (clause de compensation), et la délimitation de ce que notre constructeur local Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd va faire dans le projet et à quel prix", a-t-il précisé.

Le chef d'état-major de l'IAF s'est exprimé lors d'une conférence de presse tenue à Bangalore devant les médias indiens en marge de la réception d'un nouveau système de détection et de commandement aéroporté AEW&C fabriqué par le brésilien Embraer.

[hernandez973]

enfin une bonne nouvelle

[zx]

ce qui est étonnant, ils ne sont pas intéresser par le caracal pour leur force spéciale ?

Heavylift Copter, Tanker Bids Near End

http://livefist.blogspot.fr/2012/09/heavylift-copter-tanker-bids-near-end.html

The Indian Air Force chief has said today that the government will shortly open bids in two critical competitions: the 15 heavy-lift helicopter bid (a toss-up between the Boeing CH-47F Chinook and Mi-26T2) and the 6 refuelling tanker competition (between the Airbus A330 MRTT and Ilyushin-78M).

[Philippe Top-Force]

ce qui est étonnant, ils ne sont pas intéresser par le caracal pour leur force spéciale ?

Heavylift Copter, Tanker Bids Near End

http://livefist.blogspot.fr/2012/09/heavylift-copter-tanker-bids-near-end.html

The Indian Air Force chief has said today that the government will shortly open bids in two critical competitions: the 15 heavy-lift helicopter bid (a toss-up between the Boeing CH-47F Chinook and Mi-26T2) and the 6 refuelling tanker competition (between the Airbus A330 MRTT and Ilyushin-78M).

Il ne faut pas tout mélanger, les indiens veulent remplacer leur parc d'hélicoptère très lourd Mi26 Halo, donc sur ce créneau seuls les Sikorsky CH53K, Boeing Chinook CH47F et Mil-Mi26T2 peuvent être proposés.

[debonneguerre]

oh oui des CH53K ....soupir..

[zx]

http://www.upiasia.com/Top-News/2012/09/21/Indian-air-force-to-buy-French-fighters/UPI-97061348233687/

Indian air force to buy French fighters

NEW DELHI, Sept. 21 (UPI) -- The Indian air force is to finalize a contract to purchase 126 French Dassault Rafale jet fighters this year, in one of 2012's largest armaments purchases.

The sale marks a significant diversification of India's armaments base as previously its major supplier of weaponry was the Russian Federation.

In Bangalore, Indian Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne stated that, while negotiations are ongoing on with Dassault Aviation, New Delhi is optimistic that the negotiations be finished and contracts exchanged in the current fiscal year, which ends in March.

The contract for the 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft is worth $20 billion, Indo-Asian News Service reported Thursday. The fighter jets are intended to replace the air force's fleet of MiG-21s.

Given its high accident rate, the MiG-21 was deeply unpopular with Indian pilots, who referred to it as "the flying coffin" and the "widow-maker."

Four months ago in Parliament Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony said 482 MiG aircraft accidents took place through April 19, 2012. Antony added that the MiG-21 crashes killed 171 pilots, 39 civilians and eight other military personal. The accidents were caused by "both human error and technical defects," he said.

The assembly's response was immediate and critical.

"The Indian air force has lost several talented pilots, senior and junior, thanks to the flying coffin that the MiGs are," an unnamed source said to be a retired air force wing commander told the Indo-Asian News Service. "It is very easy for officers on the ground conducting inquiries to blame pilots and the human element after each crash. But each IAF pilot puts his life at stake from Day One."

Former air force Vice Chief of Air Staff Pranab Kumar Barbora said that, while it was a fact the air force has lost many MiG-21s and a substantial number of highly skilled pilots, the subsequent rate of MiG-21 accidents in the context of the number of flying hours had been reduced."

Indian air force Air Marshal Barbora, who flew a MiG-21 just before he retired in 2010, maintained that it was a "fantastic" even though its high landing speed made it "slightly tricky" to handle.

Last year Minister of State for Defense M.M. Pallam Raju said, "The MiG 21s will get phased out by 2015-16. I think the last of the squadrons of the aircraft will be phased out by 2017."

The Indian air force purchased 946 MiG-21s, of which 476 were lost in various accidents over the past 45 years.

Raju said that after the phasing out of the "MiG 21s from operational service, the air force will have the LCA, SU-30MKI, Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft and the Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft, which is being developed with Russia."

Competition for the 126 MRCA IAF fighter aircraft contract was fierce. Besides Dassault, the Eurofighter Typhoon was short-listed, while other competitors included the Russian MiG 35, Swedish Saab Gripen and the American Boeing F/A-18 E/F and the Lockheed Martin F-16 combat jets.

[Claudio Lopez]

Four months ago in Parliament Indian Defense Minister A.K. Antony said 482 MiG aircraft accidents took place through April 19, 2012. Antony added that the MiG-21 crashes killed 171 pilots, 39 civilians and eight other military personal. The accidents were caused by "both human error and technical defects," he said.

.....

The Indian air force purchased 946 MiG-21s, of which 476 were lost in various accidents over the past 45 years.

Putain ! 476 avions perdus par accident et 171 pilotes tués !

Là, il y a un problème!

Je veux bien croire que les avions russes de l'époque ne sont pas la panacé mais quand même !

Si il y a un domaine ou les russes excellaient, c'était bien dans la fiabilité et la robustesse de leur avions !

Comme il a été dit plusieurs fois ici, je pense que l'écrasante responsabilité de ces pertes est plutôt du côté indien avec la fabrication locale des pièces détachés aux qualités douteuses...

Les indiens n'ont pas cette tradition de rigueur industrielle et dans l'aeronautique, il s'agit d'un élément ESSENTIEL !

En effet, un avion quand ca tombe en panne, il ne se met pas sur la bande d'arrêt d'urgence pour attendre la dépanneuse, si les commandes ou les moteurs ne répondent plus, c'est le crach ! :P

Bref, les ingénieures de Dassault et Snecma vont avoir du boulot pour leur enseigner la rigueur dans l'usinage des pièces et que les tolérances ne joueront au microns...

[French Kiss]

Je me demande si le rafale, qui semble exceller en penetration TBA, sera vraiment le remplacant du mig-21 en terme de mission, et je me demande si les Indiens n'ont pas une autre idee derriere la tete quant a l'usage de leur MMRCA. En tout cas, ca sera un sacre changement pour les cochers indiens.

[Claudio Lopez]

C'est sur, il va y avoir un choc pour les anciens pilotes de Mig 21, ils vont passer d'une Renault 12 à une Megane 3 full option.

Mais bon je pense plutôt que tout les pilotes des Mirage 2000 vont basculer proritairement sur les Rafalou pour amortir au maximum le choc technoloique.

De toute façon, quoi qu'il arrive, ce sera au minimum 2 années d'apprentissage pour tout le monde afin d'apprivoiser la bête.

[Klem]

C'est sur, il va y avoir un choc pour les anciens pilotes de Mig 21, ils vont passer d'une Renault 12 à une Megane 3 full option.

Mais bon je pense plutôt que tout les pilotes des Mirage 2000 vont basculer proritairement sur les Rafalou pour amortir au maximum le choc technoloique.

De toute façon, quoi qu'il arrive, ce sera au minimum 2 années d'apprentissage pour tout le monde afin d'apprivoiser la bête.

Parles pas de mégane 3 ...  :-[

J'espère que question fiabilité Dassault est plus proche de VW que de Renault (Renault, chaque jour un bruit nouveau ...)

[DarkSablo]

Parles pas de mégane 3 ...  :-[

J'espère que question fiabilité Dassault est plus proche de VW que de Renault (Renault, chaque jour un bruit nouveau ...)

Alors la, ça me fait bien rire.

[chimère]

Parles pas de mégane 3 ...  :-[

J'espère que question fiabilité Dassault est plus proche de VW que de Renault (Renault, chaque jour un bruit nouveau ...)

Tu me l'a retiré de la bouche!

[g4lly]

Parles pas de mégane 3 ...  :-[

J'espère que question fiabilité Dassault est plus proche de VW que de Renault (Renault, chaque jour un bruit nouveau ...)

C'est rigolo ce french bashing gratuit. Actuellement les Renault sont plus fiable que les VW ... et de loin - on parle de pannes ici, pas du fait que tu n'apprécie pas la texture du tableau de bord, ou que t'as cassé le porte gobelet - . VW est la moins fiable des marque allemande. Tu m'aurais sorti Porsche BMW ou Opel j'aurais compris mais VW ...