Ici on cause MBT ....

[Myrtil]

4 minutes ago, Manuel77 said:

Mais alors pourquoi ne pas installer le nouveau canon Leonardo sur tous les KF51 italiens ?
Pourquoi même utiliser le « petit » calibre de 120 mm pour le nouveau canon si l'on prévoit des choses aussi révolutionnaires ?

C'est juste une idée en l'air mais le ratio est intrigant. Il ressemble au ratio de production italienne de la co-entreprise.

[g4lly]

il y a 11 minutes, Manuel77 a dit :

1. Mais alors pourquoi ne pas installer le nouveau canon Leonardo sur tous les KF51 italiens ?
2. Pourquoi même utiliser le « petit » calibre de 120 mm pour le nouveau canon si l'on prévoit des choses aussi révolutionnaires ?

1. parce qu'il n'est pas encore disponible ... donc le premier batch de char se fera sans lui. C'est une supposition.
2. parce qu'à priori Leonardo ne veut pas se risquer à choisir le mauvais nouveau calibre commun OTAN ... vu que pour le moment meme l'avenir du MBT est compromis. Il faut bien comprendre que d'un certain point de vu c'est une espèce en voie de disparition... Donc elle propose une machin qui fait tout ce que fait l'ancien, avec un petit machin en plus, le tir à 30km.

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Plus de détails qui n'explique pas le lient entre l'obus et le canon https://www.edrmagazine.eu/leonardo-vulcano-120-mm-ammunition-guided-indirect-fire-capability-for-mbts

...

Compared to artillery systems, which maximum elevation ranges between +65° and +75°, MBTs have a much lower elevation, usually under 20°; this of course limits maximum range when firing in indirect mode. “According to our preliminary estimates our Vulcano 120 will be able to cover the range from 10 to 30 km, considering an average 15° elevation,” Mauro Pellegri said. In his briefing he divided the new munition mission range in two areas, with different peculiarities and lethal effects.

“When firing in the longer range sectors, the Vulcano 120 will have a top-attack approach. The munition, by its very nature, has a low cross-section, making it natively stealth, both because it is small and fast, and because of its geometry, which makes it particularly difficult to detect, even by current and future active defence systems installed on tanks,” the Leonardo representative said, hence the focus target representative of roof armour, discussed above.

For engagements at range, the Vulcano 120 primary role, Leonardo considers a set of targets including communication centres, air defence systems, multiple rocket launchers, self-propelled artillery systems, infantry armoured fighting vehicles and alike, and MBTs, while at closer ranges, in its secondary role, the set of targets lacks MBTs.

The higher angles of impact are obtained at longer ranges, while at those ranges residual impact velocity is lower. The projectile trajectory can be shaped, usually this starts some 5 km after firing, to optimise the compromise between the angle of impact and the residual velocity, hence kinetic energy, this shaping capacity being better exploited when firing at longer ranges. When reducing the range, impact velocity increases, however angles allow impact on the frontal area of an MBT, which is the most protected one. “This is why at those ranges we do not consider tanks a potential target,” Pellegri explained, although a direct hit would probably disable most of the tank functions, taking it out of combat albeit not destroying it. Of course should the enemy tank be within APFSDS range, this would be the round of choice for destroying it.

Terminal effect is of no use if the round is not accurate. The SAL guidance sensor used on the 120 mm round  is identical to that used on bigger calibre Vulcano rounds, it has the same part number, which allows economy of scale. Leonardo representatives explained.

The round hosts a multi-constellation multi-frequency GNSS receiver, which operates with unencrypted satellite signals, an encrypted Galileo receiver being not yet available, the company underlined. However doing barrage jamming needs to know when the threat would come, while to spoof one, or most probably more than one, objects moving fast, is something considered nearly impossible. And anyway, should the action take place in a GNSS-denied environment, the round can be fired according to ballistic tables. In both cases, once within the identified target footprint, the seeker will be activated, as well as the designator, guiding the projectile towards the target within metric accuracy. At closer ranges accuracy is obviously higher, however considering a 0.2-0.3 mRad dispersion, when reaching a target at 10 km the error is considerable, hence the Vulcano guidance capability becomes key even at those closer ranges to reduce ballistic dispersion.

click on image to enlarge

The SAL version is however just the first development step, the second one considering the adoption of an Imaging Infra Red (IIR) seeker, which will make the round independent from third party target designation. “We have an IIR sensor already available, but it dates back to a few years ago; its Charge-Coupled Device( CCD) allows it to effectively carry out its role against naval targets, a relatively simple scenario considering the even background. To carry out the same role on land scenarios we need a new generation CCD and, together with our partner Diehl Defence, we are in an advanced characterization phase of our new IIR seeker,” Mauro Pellegri unveiled. The firing sequence will remain similar to that of the SAL version the main difference being that, once in the target footprint, the IIR seeker will be capable to autonomously identify its target thanks to its significant field of view, and hit it with utmost accuracy.

This will however need a more detailed set of information to be fed into the round before firing; “We will need a certain amount of information to facilitate automatic target recognition and avoid any possible assignment error; these may include detailed information on the target nature, intelligence information even taken hours before, satellite information as analysis systems are all image based,” Pellegri underlined, adding that such round would represent a real breakthrough.

The Vulcano 120 comes as a standard round, that can be used by any platform armed with a 120 mm smoothbore gun. The number of such rounds to be carried will of course depend on the mission, but the availability of such a round can extend the 120 mm platform mission, allowing it to cope with targets at long range, should artillery or close air support not be available. This will obviously need an evolution of the tanker mindset, while artillerymen should understand it will not erode their role, which by the way is more and more focusing on longer ranges, according to the deep fire concept.

While simulations provide a 30 km maximum range, this is mostly limited by the tank barrel maximum elevation, muzzle energy being well sufficient to reach longer ranges. A platform equipped with a dozer blade, capable to rapidly create a ramp to increase real elevation might well fire at longer distances, providing the tank fire control system is fitted with the right ballistic tables.

As for targeting, the increasing transparency of the battlefield, provided by airborne systems, such as UAVs, should be able to provide enough sensible targets and designation systems, awaiting for the IIR version of the Vulcano 120. The company presentation stated of a 40 months development time, including qualification, from T0; the stopwatch started turning in early 2025, so the new round should be available by mid-2028.

[gianks]

Il y a 7 heures, Manuel77 a dit :

Mais alors pourquoi ne pas installer le nouveau canon Leonardo sur tous les KF51 italiens ?
.........

Il y a un accord avec des quotas industriels à respecter.

Modifié hier à 04:35 par gianks

[gianks]

Un article sur le nouveau canon italien de 120 mm de Leonardo.

https://www.edrmagazine.eu/leonardo-unveils-its-new-120-mm-l55-tank-gun

Concernant le choix du calibre 120 mm, certains soulignent que la possibilité de tir indirect rend les performances de tir direct beaucoup moins « importantes », et que de plus, avec des canons de plus gros calibre, la tourelle actuelle devrait être entièrement revue pour permettre des inclinaisons plus importantes du canon vers le haut.

[Lordtemplar]

ce que les US comptent faire pour ameliorer leurs blindes face aux drones et nouvelles menaces. 

1. MAPS (Modular Active Protection system) software permettant le plug & play de differents systemes sans avoir a refaire le design a chaque fois.

2. APS (trophy, iron fist)

3. development d'un systeme "top attack defeat mechanism"

4. laser sur blindes (50kw vs drone cat 1 et 2)

5. reduction de la signature des blindes (IR, optique, radar, acoustique)

NB a 10:05 on voit un Fuchs avec un systeme similaire au systeme de Thales Prometheus