Le F-35

[FATac]

PS: À quand l'intégration d'un HUD sur F-35 en crash programm? ;)

C'est le F-35, le Crash Program !  :lol:

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[xav]

C'est le F-35, le Crash Program !  :lol:

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[]<---------------------- ou plutot le Ca$h program

[Claudio Lopez]

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/feature/5/133433/f_35-unit-cost-tops-%24200m--%3Ci%3E%28updated%29%3C§i%3E.html

Le F-35 à 200 millions de $ pièce!

PS: À quand l'intégration d'un HUD sur F-35 en crash programm? ;)

Mode avocat de mauvaise foi du JSF : ON

Oui mais ça c'est le prix avec les frais de R&D  donc comparé aux programme Rafale qui a couté 150 millions d'euros  par avion , on tourne avec un JSF avec la parité euro/$ à 1,31.

Donc le prix du JSF revient à 152 Millions d'Euros !

Bon alors le prix du JSF est égale au prix du Rafale !  =)

Mais ou est ce que vous voyez le crach vous ? =)

Mode premier ministre canadien : ON

De toute façon moi je m'en fous !

LM m'a promis le JSF à 100 millions de $ et pas un de plus ! Nann ! >:(

Mode sérieux : ON

Qu'est ce qu'il lui manque pour qu'il devienne plus cher qu'un F22 ?

[Drakene]

...

Qu'est ce qu'il lui manque pour qu'il devienne plus cher qu'un F22 ?

Un 2éme réacteur ?  O0

[Chimera]

MODE PM ISRAELIEN ON

Rien à battre, c'est pas nous qui payons la facture.

MODE PM ISRAELIEN OFF

[Chimera]

Given the information provided in each Lot 5 contract announcement, it is possible to compute, with a degree of accuracy, the cost of each version of the F-35. If the average cost is $203.4 million per aircraft, it in fact varies substantially according to the version:

-- F-35A: $172 million per aircraft;

-- F-35B: $291.7 million per aircraft;

-- F-35C: $235.8 million per aircraft.

Puta*********!!!!!!! :O :O :O :O

[Joab]

Rien à battre, c'est pas nous qui payons la facture.

Moue, ca se repercutera quand meme.

[BPCs]

Given the information provided in each Lot 5 contract announcement, it is possible to compute, with a degree of accuracy, the cost of each version of the F-35. If the average cost is $203.4 million per aircraft, it in fact varies substantially according to the version:

-- F-35A: $172 million per aircraft;

-- F-35B: $291.7 million per aircraft;

-- F-35C: $235.8

Cela ne fait , par appareil, que 60 m$  d'ecart entre -B et -C mais pour le lot 5 !

Les prix devraient se tasser pour les lots ultérieurs  au fur et à mesure qu'ils se rapprocheront de la pleine production et donc l'espacement entre version devrait se réduire .

[Tactac]

Cela ne fait que 60$ par appareil mais pour le lot 5 !

...

On est pas sur la même planète Math, là ...

the average cost is $203.4 million per aircraft

F-35B: $291.7 million per aircraft

Faut qu'on traduise là ou ça va aller ? Le LOT 5 n'est pas un lot de 5 appareils donc si le calcul est 292 Md$ / 5 ~ 60 Md€, c'est planté !

d'où sortent les 60$ que tu énonces ?  (même po millions de $ mais $  :O )

[g4lly]

Le LRIP 5 c'est 30 avions d’après l'article, pour 6 milliard 280 million de dollar américain.

PARIS --- Previously estimated at nearly $160 million, the unit price of F-35 fighters ordered as part of the fifth Low-Rate Initial Production batch (LRIP Lot 5) has now passed $200 million, once additional contracts awarded by the Pentagon since our previous estimate on Dec. 9, 2011 are included.

On that date, when DoD awarded the main Lot 5 Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP 5) contract worth $4,011,919,310 for 30 aircraft, we had estimated average unit costs at $159.7 million.

However, after recent claims by US Air Force and program officials that F-35 acquisition costs are being reduced as better prices are negotiated with contractors, we updated our cost estimate.

Unsurprisingly, F-35 prices in fact show no sign of decreasing, and the total cost of LRIP Lot 5 further increased after two additional contracts awarded in late December.

Intriguingly, the Pentagon picked December 27 – two days after Christmas, in what is arguably the slowest news week of the year – to award two additional LRIP 5 contracts. Had it wanted to hide these awards, it would hardly have acted differently.

One contract, worth $485,000,000, is for LRIP 5 “non-recurring requirements,” which adds $16.6 million to the price of each of 30 LRIP 5 aircraft.

The second contract, awarded to Pratt & Whitney, is for production of 30 F135 engines for the LRIP 5 aircraft, and is worth $1.12 billion; it adds an average of $37.4 million to the cost of each aircraft.

We also identified a further LRIP 5 contract not previously included in our LRIP 5 estimate: it was awarded May 10, 2010, and covers F135 engine long lead items for this batch to the value of $138.8 million. At the time, LRIP 5 included 42 aircraft, so the contract’s cost works out to $3.3 million per aircraft.

Including these three, the Pentagon has awarded five contracts, together worth $6,280 million, to fund 30 LRIP 5 aircraft, whose average unit cost – engines included -- is thus $203.4 million.

Here is an updated breakdown of this estimate:

There are two caveats, however, to the above unit cost:

1. It does not include the cost of the modifications, retrofits and upgrades that will be necessary to bring all LRIP aircraft to their nominal configuration, once flight testing and development are completed. The estimated cost of these modifications, known as concurrency costs, varies between $5 million (Lockheed Martin) and $10 million per aircraft (US Senate panel).

The JSF program office has not released its own estimate, but Venlet in December said the bill for fixing concurrency ills was so high it "sucks the wind out of your lungs."

2. Several of these LRIP 5 contracts include cost escalation clauses (“cost plus incentive contract line items”; “fixed-price-incentive (firm target)”; “cost-sharing/no-fee basis,” and “not-to-exceed cost-plus-fixed-fee”), so their actual cost will increase before they are completed.

Updated March 13, 2012

The award of additional contract fees and reimbursements has already begun. On March 12, the Pentagon announced it had awarded Lockheed:

"a $56,329,396 cost reimbursement modification to previously awarded contract (N00019-10-C-0002) to provide additional funding for the sustainment effort necessary to meet the requirements and delivery schedule for the F-35 Low Rate Initial Production V."

This contract adds another $1.9 million to the cost of each LRIP 5 aircraft, and more awards of this kind are to be expected.

It is thus inevitable that LRIP 5 costs will increase further, and by a substantial margin, as major re-design and modifications will be required, for example to fix the non-functional F-35C tail-hook and other design flaws.

Cost Varies Substantially by Version

Originally set at 42 aircraft, the F-35 Low Rate Initial Production Lot 5 now comprises 30 aircraft:

-- 21 Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft for the US Air Force;

-- 6 Carrier Variant (CV) aircraft for the US Navy, and

-- 3 Short Take Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) aircraft for the US Marine Corps.

Given the information provided in each Lot 5 contract announcement, it is possible to compute, with a degree of accuracy, the cost of each version of the F-35. If the average cost is $203.4 million per aircraft, it in fact varies substantially according to the version:

-- F-35A: $172 million per aircraft;

-- F-35B: $291.7 million per aircraft;

-- F-35C: $235.8 million per aircraft.

This is a breakdown of LRIP 5 contracts and resulting unit costs, by version.

While these are the projected unit costs for the LRIP 5 aircraft, there is no implication that production aircraft would cost anywhere near these amounts.

However, costs will not begin to decrease until the F-35 enters full-scale production, and this is unlikely to happen for some years yet, especially since the Pentagon has now decided to further reduce LRIP production until flight tests demonstrate that the aircraft is meeting its performance and reliability goals.

Delaying orders for 179 LRIP aircraft for five years, part of the Pentagon’s FY2013 budget request, will save over $15 billion in the short term, but will ultimately further increase unit costs for the remaining aircraft.

F-35 Low-Rate Initial Production Lot 5 Contracts:

The Pentagon has awarded five main contracts for the Lot 5 Low-Rate Initial Production, listed below.

These should have been fixed-price contracts, following former Defense Secretary Robert Gates’ decision to stop cost-plus contracts for this program. However, this is not the case, as we have highlighted in bold characters below.

This allows for a further increase in contract costs if the contractors incur higher than expected costs.

1. Long-lead items (F135 engine): May 6, 2010

United Technologies Corp., Pratt & Whitney Military Engines, East Hartford, Conn., is being awarded an advance acquisition contract with an estimated value of $138,800,000 for long lead components, parts and materials associated with the Lot V low rate initial production of 22 F135 conventional take-off and landing propulsion systems for the Air Force; 13 short take-off and vertical landing propulsion systems for the Marine Corps; and 7 carrier variant propulsion systems for the Navy.

Work will be performed in East Hartford, Conn. (70 percent); Bristol, United Kingdom (19 percent); and Indianapolis, Ind. (11 percent), and is expected to be completed in April 2011.

Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This contract was not competitively procured.

This contract combines purchases for the Air Force ($51,300,000; 37 percent); Marine Corps ($65,600,000; 47 percent); and Navy ($21,900,000; 16 percent).

The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Md., is the contracting activity (N00019-10-C-0005).

http://www.defense.gov/contracts/contract.aspx?contractid=4275

2. Long-lead items (airframe): July 6, 2010

Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded an advance acquisition contract with an estimated value of $522,200,000 to provide for long-lead efforts and materials associated with the production and delivery of 42 low-rate initial production Lot V F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft.

This contract provides for 22 conventional take-off and landing aircraft for the Air Force; 13 short take off and vertical landing aircraft for the Marine Corps; and seven carrier variant aircraft for the Navy.

Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas (35 percent); El Segundo, Calif. (25 percent); Warton, United Kingdom (20 percent); Orlando, Fla. (10 percent); Nashua, N.H. (5 percent); and Baltimore, Md. (5 percent).

Work is expected to be completed in May 2011. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This contract was not competitively procured.

This contract combines purchases for the Navy ($329,100,000; 63 percent) and Air Force ($193,100,000; 37 percent).

The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Md., is the contracting activity (N00019-10-C-0002).

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release_ar/116224/lockheed-wins-initial-%24522m-for-production-of-jsf-lot-v.html

3. Main LRIP 5 contract (airframes): December 27, 2011

Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $4,011,919,310 fixed-price-incentive (firm target) (FPIF) modification to a previously awarded advance acquisition contract (N00019-10-C-0002).

This modification provides for the manufacture and delivery of 30 Low Rate Initial Production Lot V F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Aircraft for the U.S. Air Force (21 Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft); the U.S. Navy (6 Carrier Variant (CV) aircraft) and the U.S. Marine Corps (3 Short Take Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) aircraft).

In addition, this modification provides for associated ancillary mission equipment and flight test instrumentation for those aircraft, and flight test instrumentation for the United Kingdom.

All effort will be contracted for on a FPIF basis, with the exception of work scope for the incorporation of certain specified concurrency changes that will be contracted for on a cost-sharing/no-fee basis.

Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas (67 percent); El Segundo, Calif. (14 percent); Warton, United Kingdom (9 percent); Orlando, Fla. (4 percent); Nashua, N.H. (3 percent); and Baltimore, Md. (3 percent), and is expected to be completed in January 2014. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year.

This contract combines purchases for the U.S. Air Force ($2,644,270,340; 65.9 percent); the U.S. Navy ($937,374,286; 23.34 percent); the U.S. Marine Corps ($426,190,013; 10.6 percent); and the United Kingdom ($4,084,671; 0.1 percent).

The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Md., is the contracting activity.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release_ar/131154/f_35-unit-cost-nears-%24160m-as-lockheed-wins-%244bn-for-lrip-5-lot.html

4. LRIP 5 (production non-recurring requirements): December 27, 2011

Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $485,000,000 not-to-exceed cost-plus-fixed-fee undefinitized modification to a previously awarded advance acquisition contract (N00019-10-C-0002).

A total of $131,500,000 is being obligated at time of award.

This modification provides the F-35 Lightning II, Joint Strike Fighter Low Rate Initial Production Lot V production non-recurring requirements inclusive of special tooling/special test equipment and subcontractor technical assistance for the Air Force, Navy, and the Cooperative Partner participants.

Work will be performed in Fort Worth, Texas (30 percent); El Segundo, Calif. (20 percent); Wharton, United Kingdom (20 percent); Turin, Italy (15 percent); Nashua, N.H. (8 percent); and Baltimore, Md. (7 percent).

Work is expected to be completed in December 2013. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This contract combines purchases for the Air Force ($186,725,000; 38.5 percent); the U.S. Navy ($186,725,000; 38.5 percent); and the Cooperative Partner participants ($111,550,000; 23 percent).

The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Md., is the contracting activity. (ends)

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release_ar/131560/lockheed-wins-extra-%24738m-for-f_35-lrip-5.html

5. Main LRIP 5 contract (engines): December 27, 2011

United Technologies Corp., Pratt & Whitney Military Engines, East Hartford, Conn., is being awarded a $1,122,306,649 not-to-exceed undefinitized modification to a previously awarded advanced acquisition contract (N00019-10-C-0005).

A total of $358,597,078 is being obligated at time of award. The contract includes both fixed price incentive and cost plus incentive contract line items.

This undefinitized modification provides for the Lot V Low Rate Initial Production of 21 F135 Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) Propulsion Systems for the Air Force; 3 Short Take-off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) Propulsion Systems for the Marine Corps; and 6 Carrier Variant (CV) Propulsion Systems for the Navy.

In addition, this modification provides for production non-recurring effort, non-recurring autonomic logistics effort and recurring sustainment effort for the U.S. Services and Cooperative Partner Participants.

Work will be performed in East Hartford, Conn. (67 percent); Bristol, United Kingdom (16.5 percent); and Indianapolis, Ind. (16.5 percent), and is expected to be completed in February 2014. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year.

This contract was not competitively procured. This contract combines purchases for the Air Force ($520,650,335; 46.3 percent); Marine Corps ($387,099,090; 34.5 percent); Navy ($166,710,445; 14.9 percent); and the Cooperative Partner Participants ($47,846,779; 4.3 percent).

The Naval Air Systems Command, Patuxent River, Md. is the contracting activity.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release_ar/131561/pratt-wins-%241.2-bn-for-30-f_35-lrip-5-engines.html

-ends-

[xav]

Mode premier ministre canadien : ON

De toute façon moi je m'en fous !

LM m'a promis le JSF à 100 millions de $ et pas un de plus ! Nann ! >:(

En fait ils dechantent aussi

OTTAWA — Two years of unwavering Conservative support for the F-35 took a major hit Tuesday as Associate Defence Minister Julian Fantino said the government has not ruled out walking away from the troubled stealth fighter program.Fantino also revealed a team of defence department officials have been considering "all kinds of contingencies" should the F-35 not be ready to replace Canada's aging fleet of CF-18s and acknowledged the government does not know how much each F-35 will cost.

[Chevalier Gilles]

pour le prix des F-35 c'est normale ce sont encore des lots de préproduction

LRIP (= low rate inital production )

pour info le prix des F-35A du lot 1 étaient de 220m USD donc on peut voir que les prix chutent a chaque fois et ce sera pareil avec les autres versions

[BPCs]

...

On est pas sur la même planète Math, là ...

Faut qu'on traduise là ou ça va aller ? Le LOT 5 n'est pas un lot de 5 appareils donc si le calcul est 292 Md$ / 5 ~ 60 Md€, c'est planté !

d'où sortent les 60$ que tu énonces ?  (même po millions de $ mais $  :O )

Mon post n'était pas explicite , mea culpa !

Je pensais à l'écart de prix entre version dans l'optique du GAÉ des CVF.

[xav]

[xav]

Canada Wobbles on JSF

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a201fdc73-1dde-4dcc-9f23-70f968dd8587&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest

[xav]

Source: Marine FOrum

ITALY

Italy reportedly has cut orders for US-manufactured F-35B and F-35C combat aircraft … no revised numbers available yet, however, the navy may still hope for its planned 22 F-35B STOVL aircraft, as otherwise aircraft carrier CAVOUR won’t have an air wing once ageing Harrier are phased out.

[Skw]

Pour rappel : F-35 Target Prices Revealed [décembre 2010]

"According to the Joint Program Office (JPO), the recently signed LRIP 4 contract sets a target price of $111.6 million for the CTOL F-35A,  $109.4 million for the STOVL F-35B and $142.9 million for the F-35C carrier variant. These prices do not include the F135 engine, as Pratt & Whitney is still negotiating its LRIP 4 contract.

LRIP 4 is the first fixed-price incentive contract for the F-35. Previous batches have been cost-plus. A government source tells Amy the target prices for the first three production lots are: LRIP 1, $221.2 million for CTOL; LRIP 2, $161.7 million for CTOL and $160.7 million for STOL; and LRIP 3, $128.2 million for CTOL and $128 million for STOVL."

Si l'on souhaite comparer les coûts de ces exemplaires LRIP5 aux valeurs mentionnées en 2010 pour le LRIP4, il nous faut prendre les valeurs non motorisée. En mode LRIP5, si je ne me suis pas planté, cela donne ces coûts moyens :

F-35 A = 144 millions $ / unité
F-35 B = 160 millions $ / unité *
F-35 C = 204,7 millions $ / unité

C'est en tout cas bien davantage que tous les prix cibles cités fin 2010 pour les exemplaires LRIP4. Autrement dit, même si l'on calculait en dollars constants, les exemplaires LRIP5 ne parviennent pas à atteindre les chiffres cibles de la version LRIP4.

Il faut dire que le nombre d’exemplaires prévus initialement en LRIP5 était de 47. L'Australie ayant décidé de remettre à plus tard l'acquisition de ses 4 exemplaires prévus sur cette tranche et le Ministère de la Défense US ayant réduit son nombre d'exemplaires pour pouvoir justement financer les surcoûts du programme, on est passé de 47 à 30 exemplaires LRIP5. Le cercle vicieux…

* On apprend que dans le cadre de ce LRIP5, une motorisation VSTOL c’est plus de 100 millions $ à l’unité. Evidemment, les prix baisseront par la suite. Sans la motorisation, et ce n’est pas nouveau, la version B est moins chère que la version C.

[Steph535]

Le Chengdu J-20 inspiré du F-35 ?

http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/monde/story/20094224

[collectionneur]

Par Confucius, ils sont fou ces chinois, il veulent engloutir leur argent dans ce trou noir ?  :O

[French Kiss]

Comme quoi, dictature ou "democratie", la capacite de discernement est la meme  :lol:

[pascal]

çà s'appelle l'effet "miroir" auquel les soviets ont consciencieusement souscrit durant presque 40 ans

[g4lly]

çà s'appelle l'effet "miroir" auquel les soviets ont consciencieusement souscrit durant presque 40 ans

Sauf que les chinois semble avoir retenu la leçon ... il exploite les techno US quand elle sont mure et pas avant s’épargnant beaucoup d’écueils technologiques. Pas vraiment la meme chose que les soviet qui "copie" le B-1 en Tu-160 :lol:

[dark sidius]

Je ne comprend pas comment ce fait t'il que cet avion soit aussi couteux, il ne renferme pas non plus une téchnologie éxtraordinaire avec ce genre de procédés Lockheed va tuer l'inovations en bouffant tous les budgets il y a des coups de pieds au cul qui se perdent. J'éspère que Lockheed ne fera pas partit du team new Bomber, préférence pour Northrop ou Boeing.

[clem200]

Je ne comprend pas comment ce fait t'il que cet avion soit aussi couteux, il ne renferme pas non plus une téchnologie éxtraordinaire avec ce genre de procédés Lockheed va tuer l'inovations en bouffant tous les budgets il y a des coups de pieds au cul qui se perdent. J'éspère que Lockheed ne fera pas partit du team new Bomber, préférence pour Northrop ou Boeing.

Ça on en sait rien. J'aurais plutôt tendance à dire que si. C'est un avion très innovant (le casque par exemple). Et puis il y a pas que la tachnologie embarquer, les 3 versions développer y sont pour beaucoup.

[g4lly]

Je ne comprend pas comment ce fait t'il que cet avion soit aussi couteux, il ne renferme pas non plus une téchnologie éxtraordinaire avec ce genre de procédés Lockheed va tuer l'inovations en bouffant tous les budgets il y a des coups de pieds au cul qui se perdent. J'éspère que Lockheed ne fera pas partit du team new Bomber, préférence pour Northrop ou Boeing.

En fait il y a 3 avions différent ... avec quelques élément en commun, pas un seul. Il on juste fait un coup marketing comme avec le F18E ... en leur collant le meme nom :lol: Et si il y a des choses "extraordinaires" dedans, du moins ce qui se fait de mieux aujourd'hui et demain, pour un avion de cette taille  et de cette gamme, du moins s'il arrive a mettre tout ce qui est promis au point. Le petit souci c'est que le programme est optimisé pour les USA et leurs besoins de strike, pour les autres je suis pas sur du tout qu'il convienne plus que ca.